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  Apollo-Soyuz crew patches: variants and versions

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Author Topic:   Apollo-Soyuz crew patches: variants and versions
spaced out
Member

Posts: 2833
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 05-03-2012 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the entry for the AB Emblem Apollo-Soyuz Test Project mission patch on my Crew Patches site I already mentioned that there were variations of the patch which included different arrangements of some thread colors and a space between the blue and red blocks of thread around the stars and the outer red border of the patch.

A thorough review of the available photographic evidence, including the Retro Space Images ASTP discs, by patch collector Colin Burgess showed that the latter variant is clearly visible in all examples of the embroidered patch worn by the crew after the flight, worn by the Russian crew members during the flight, and used in NASA presentations from the time.

Based on all this evidence, and particularly a shot of the crew in their pale blue flight suits in Hawaii after the flight, it seems clear that this variant qualifies as a Crew Patch for the mission, alongside the well-known initialed crew patches.

It's open to question whether this was just a variation in the early runs of the patch (in which case it may have been produced in thousands of examples and been sold commercially) or a subtle but distinct difference in the design of an initial run produced for NASA. In either case it's still an interesting variant to collect.

Beau08
Member

Posts: 159
From: Peoria, AZ United States
Registered: Aug 2011

posted 05-03-2012 07:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Beau08   Click Here to Email Beau08     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is good news Chris. I have one of these ASTP variants that came along with a "white eagle" Apollo 17 patch from the personal collection of suit technician Al Rochford in an RR Auction and I was convinced that it was different than the standard issue AB Emblem. In fact I think I even sent a scan of it to you maybe a year ago.

As to the production run its probably impossible to say for sure, but what I do know is that I have yet to see another one on eBay or anywhere else to date.

Kevin T. Randall
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Posts: 626
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 05-03-2012 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One was sold on eBay today in a lot of four Apollo patches (an Apollo 12 'crew' patch [variant 3], and two Apollo 15 patches). They sold for $270.11 with 9 bids from 4 bidders.

Besixdouze
Member

Posts: 205
From: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Jan 2011

posted 05-04-2012 02:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Besixdouze   Click Here to Email Besixdouze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree especially considering I was the lucky purchaser (although more through accident than design). I was actually after the 12 variant.

Imagine my despair, however at seeing Chris' post less than two hours before this auction ended. Such is the monster he has created.

I fully expected, having checked the patches again, that I'd be outbid but despite a last minute flurry, I'd pre-bid enough.

Great work by Chris again though on identifying this new crew patch.

spaced out
Member

Posts: 2833
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 05-04-2012 03:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As mentioned above the existence of this variant has been raised before, and indeed this is why I had mentioned variants in my AB write-up.

What tipped my hand now is the overwhelming weight of photographic evidence provided by the RetroSpaceImages discs, in particular the picture I include above.

If the crew had changed into these blue jump suits in the recovery helicopter I probably would have declared this a crew patch some years ago.

Anyway, there was quite a bonanza of crew patches on eBay yesterday, with 7, 8, 9, 10, 12 and ASTP all up for grabs.

Like most people I held out a weak hope at the beginning that maybe some of these patches would go unrecognized but of course in reality every one was almost certainly being watched eagerly by dozens of patch collectors from the first day they appeared.

In any case congratulations to all those who won them.

Besixdouze
Member

Posts: 205
From: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Jan 2011

posted 05-04-2012 05:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Besixdouze   Click Here to Email Besixdouze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beau08:
As to the production run its probably impossible to say for sure, but what I do know is that I have yet to see another one on eBay or anywhere else to date.
Unless I'm mistaken this completed listing (patch from Slayton's estate, 120892280151) looks very much like one to me. Maybe he can re-list and make the reserve now it's been officially designated by Chris.

Kevin T. Randall
Member

Posts: 626
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 05-04-2012 08:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes Mike, that patch IS one of the newly recognized ASTP 'crew' patches.

I would hazard a very good guess and say if it originated from the estate of the late Deke Slayton, all of the ASTP patches from that estate that have been sold over the years by a number of the auction houses, including those listed on eBay by Lunar legacies, that had the letter of authenticity signed by his wife Bobby Slayton, all were from that one production run by AB Emblem in 1975.

I would say if Trevor re-listed that ASTP 'crew' patch again now, it would sell in an instant for the $599.00 Buy It Now price, or if someone started the bidding off at the $530.00 start price, it would sell for well over $600.00. Such as the power of Chris' crewpatches website now that any crew patch identified from it will sell for big bucks.

Beau08
Member

Posts: 159
From: Peoria, AZ United States
Registered: Aug 2011

posted 05-04-2012 10:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Beau08   Click Here to Email Beau08     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would like to take a moment to thank Chris and Kevin for being very diligent on the research and scrutiny of a possible crew patch before declaring it so. People put a lot of weight into their judgment as to the collect ability of patches and it is a bit reassuring to know how serious you guys take it. I like that you give your best opinion on production and let the market set the price.

Cheers guys and thanks for your efforts...

spaced out
Member

Posts: 2833
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 05-04-2012 10:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have to say I sincerely hope that these patches don't start selling for $500+, although ones originating from Slayton's collection could command a premium over those with more humble origins.

There's no real reason to think at the moment that they're especially rare, and we can be almost certain that many more of these were produced than the 150 (+ overrun) examples of each of the initialed crew patches.

Logically this should mean that they are nowhere near as valuable as the initialed crew patches which sell for maybe $100+ at present. Mind you, logic has little to do with all this.

Kevin T. Randall
Member

Posts: 626
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 05-04-2012 10:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This one is totally down to Chris, I have had no input on this one, (as yet). Though I am now going to have to find some time to reserch back through past eBay sales etc and list them for the sales footnotes at the bottom of the webpage.

Kevin T. Randall
Member

Posts: 626
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 05-06-2012 12:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chris and I has now added all the known eBay sales of the ASTP 'crew' patches since January 2008 plus the Goldberg Space Auction sales.

Also added many more eBay sales to other 'crew' patches sales footnotes, and re-vamped the 'contractor' patches page into three pages.

Take a look.

Liembo
Member

Posts: 339
From: Bothell, WA
Registered: Jan 2013

posted 06-25-2013 10:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Liembo   Click Here to Email Liembo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I came across this 4" ASTP patch that I am not able to find the source of.

The embroidery and detail is better than the 4" and 4 3/4" initialed replicas. The gold border is stitched horizontally. The main tell is that "Slayton" and "Leonov" are closer than the A-B emblem and farther than the Lion Brothers version.

It was an eBay find.

Liembo
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Posts: 339
From: Bothell, WA
Registered: Jan 2013

posted 10-10-2015 03:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Liembo   Click Here to Email Liembo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For over a year now I have been trying to solve the mystery of the patch shown in this ASTP crew photo and based on my research I have come to conclusion that two new types of ASTP patches should be acknowledged:

There is a second ASTP crew-worn patch

-AND-

There is an ASTP Crew Souvenir patch

Both the US and Soviet crews are wearing the same blue/red ASTP project patch. The photo above is in high enough resolution that specific details about the patch are revealed.

After many months of searching I was finally able to acquire actual examples of the patches that I believe match those patches exactly. I was also able to find other photos of the crews wearing the patches during their combined training at JSC.

Based on criteria that determines if a vintage patch is "crew worn"

  • wore previous to the mission in training OR
  • wore on their recovery jumpsuits OR
  • wore in other public affairs on their jumpsuits/jackets/etc
  • smaller production run
I believe that the above patch should be identified as a crew patch:

Research into the ASTP blue/red patch also led me to find an example of a flown patch that does not match this or the A-B Emblem souvenir patch.

Based on criteria that determines if a vintage patch is a "crew souvenir":

  • carried on a mission but not necessarily worn
  • distributed to limited number of people inside NASA
  • smaller production
I believe this style of ASTP patch should be identified as "crew souvenir":

You can read an in-depth analysis here at SPDb.

Liembo
Member

Posts: 339
From: Bothell, WA
Registered: Jan 2013

posted 01-06-2016 06:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Liembo   Click Here to Email Liembo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I finally managed to get an actual copy of the patch I believe the ASTP crew is wearing in the crew photo and wore during their joint training. The previous copy I found inexplicably had the red/white color fields reversed, this one is correct:

BMckay
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Posts: 2460
From: MA, USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 05-10-2016 09:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BMckay   Click Here to Email BMckay     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have this Apollo-Soyuz patch and I am looking for more info on it:

dcfowler1
Member

Posts: 49
From: Eugene, OR
Registered: May 2006

posted 05-10-2016 11:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dcfowler1   Click Here to Email dcfowler1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It was the Russian crew's unique mission patch.

Russian
Member

Posts: 103
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012

posted 05-12-2016 08:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here we can see a really original and very rare Soviet Soyuz-Apollo patch.

It was designed by the Soviet program team and produced in a very limited number. I got my from the family of Vladimir Syromiatnikov — Big Cheese surname by NASA team.

From the back side you have just a cotton lay. On some originals you can see pink flowers (not bright) on the other side of the white cotton lay (they took bed blankets for the back side of the patch). Plastic was forbidden for all on board patches because of toxic gas in case of fire. I congratulate the owner of this pentagonal original!

hoorenz
Member

Posts: 949
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 05-12-2016 06:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I first saw the image Bryan sent me, I also believed it was real. I think it is a modern replica and I also believe I have seen a couple of them on eBay in the past. Compare it to the original I gave to Jacques. Especially the black threads between the letters in Bryan's patch are suspect. Looks like modern machine embroidery.

The story behind this patch is fascinating and very ironic, if it is really true. The smaller circular blue/red patch also seen in this thread, designed by Galina Balashova, was the official Soviet project patch. It had been revealed at the Paris Airshow in 1973 and became so popular, that the Soviets mistakenly believed it had to be an American design. So shortly before the flight, the pentagonal variant was produced (according to Sasha Glushko's new book, it was designed by V. F. Knor), so at least the Soviets were sure the cosmonauts had a Soviet designed patch on their suits (this story is in the book about Galina Balashova published by DOM earlier).

Bill Hunt
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Posts: 388
From: Irvine, CA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 05-12-2016 07:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bill Hunt   Click Here to Email Bill Hunt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I too believe this is a modern replica. I also have an original flight issue patch, and an original "training version" of the patch as well. (Seen as soap-em1 and soap-em2 on Gene Dorr's page).

It's a nice replica, but I agree that it appears modern. I don't believe it's vintage.

Russian
Member

Posts: 103
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012

posted 05-13-2016 04:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe you are right and it could be a replica. We need to see the back side in this case. Could the owner put here the back side photo?

BMckay
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Posts: 2460
From: MA, USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 05-13-2016 05:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BMckay   Click Here to Email BMckay     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Russian
Member

Posts: 103
From: France
Registered: Nov 2012

posted 05-13-2016 10:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unfortunately, friends, you were right! Modern replica...

Liembo
Member

Posts: 339
From: Bothell, WA
Registered: Jan 2013

posted 05-13-2016 11:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Liembo   Click Here to Email Liembo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The reproduction did a great job of recreating that distinctive radial fill in the gray area. I can see why it was initially believed to be vintage.

BMckay
Member

Posts: 2460
From: MA, USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 06-01-2016 08:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BMckay   Click Here to Email BMckay     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all your info.

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