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Author Topic:   STS-1 / Columbia mission patch
The Evelyonian
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posted 11-09-2005 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for The Evelyonian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On the official STS-1 patch the (blast? fire?) under the shuttle fades from yellow to orange to red.

On the STS-1 patch I have it just fades from yellow to red. Does this mean mine is a fake or just a different design?

sts205cdr
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posted 11-09-2005 06:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sts205cdr   Click Here to Email sts205cdr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Your patch is what is called a "replica" patch (rather than a "fake"). These can be manufactured years after the mission and are usually less attractive in looks than the ones made for NASA (such as by A-B Emblem).

Authentic and replica patches are about 4" in diameter. "Souvenir" versions are about 3" in diameter.

Here's a good website for reference.

KAPTEC
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posted 11-11-2005 01:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KAPTEC   Click Here to Email KAPTEC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have the AB Emblem patch, buyed on STS-1 launch time... and fades yellow to red, without orange. And I'm sure that it is not a replica or a fake.

sts205cdr
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posted 11-12-2005 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sts205cdr   Click Here to Email sts205cdr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just as a follow up, I checked in Relics of the Space Race (1995, '98, 01 by Russell Still), which states:
Moving into the Shuttle era, with the exception of STS-1, the evidence becomes stronger that A-B Emblems produced most, if not all, of the official mission patches...

...although bids were usually submitted by several companies for each flight, A-B Emblems got the patch contracts for all missions since the mid-80's.

There is no mention of who might have produced an "official" STS-1 patch, nor are there any examples of the STS-1 patch in this edition. It does name Hanky Panky and Swiss Artex as two other companies that have produced Shuttle patches.

Bill Hunt
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posted 11-12-2005 08:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bill Hunt   Click Here to Email Bill Hunt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While AB Emblems patches are generally considered to be the "official" patches for the NASA missions, particularly in the Apollo era (and through to Skylab and the very early shuttle flights), astronauts would often wear both AB and non-AB patches.

For example, it's not uncommon to see the Apollo astronauts wearing the Lion Brothers patches in vintage photos, and Lion Brothers patches were often flown on the missions (along with the AB patches).

The "official" Apollo 1 patch was made by Stylized Emblem of Hollywood, CA. The Apollo 11 patch that the astronauts wore on their isolation garments was made by a company in Houston. Then there's the Apollo 10 patch the astronauts wore on their suits for the official photo, which was provided to them by Grumman (and was made by a non-AB company).

As for STS-1, I've seen photos of Young and Crippen taken at different times over the years wearing both the AB and the Lion Bros patches. Here's a crew photo (for example) which seems to show them wearing the Lion Brothers patch (note the smoother gradation of color on the rocket exhaust).

Bottom line: while it's probably safe (and best) to consider the AB patch as "official", the astronauts often used Lion Brothers patches (and patches of other manufacture) interchangeably with the AB on these early missions.

OV-105
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posted 11-12-2005 08:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for OV-105   Click Here to Email OV-105     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think that is a patch in the STS-1 crew photo. It looks more like the decal of the patch. I know in some of the crew photos they put a decal on thier flight suit for the photo because the patch was not ready yet. STS 51-F and STS 51-I come to mind off the top of my head.

Harald Kraenzel
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posted 11-19-2005 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harald Kraenzel   Click Here to Email Harald Kraenzel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In addition to all other comments I wish to add the following:

So far as I know the STS-1 patch was manufactured in three versions having two, three and four colored flames. The three flame version was made by Lion Brothers.

I was told that there were a number of four colored patches which flew on board of Columbia during the STS-1 mission.

As I am collect STS patches for myself I was able to collect more than 10 different STS-1 patch versions.

hoorenz
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posted 12-31-2005 12:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The original STS-1 patch, as worn by Young and Crippen had orange colored flame and readable "USA" on wing (Lion Brothers has just a black rectangle).

KSCartist
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posted 01-02-2006 09:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCartist   Click Here to Email KSCartist     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I read this thread, I too pulled out my STS-1 patch and checked it. Like Jorge (KAPTEC) I also purchased it in 1981 from AB Emblem. It is the "two color" version yellow to red. When I want to double check accuracy I find the best way is to look at photographs of the astronauts on launch day. They show that they wore a patch known as the three color version (yellow-orange-red) which in my opinion more closely follows Bob McCall's artwork. So I guess I need to look for a new patch.

I have found that A-B Emblems quality suffered for a time. A case in point: in 1992 I worked at the "Spaceport USA" at KSC in the gift shop. I pointed out to my boss that the STS-32 patch did not include the two symbols placed at (9:00 and 3:00) on the patch. He showed me a photocopy of a letter from Dan Brandenstein which explained that those symbols could not be embroidered clearly by AB Emblem and so the crew decided to wear patches without those symbols.

I had purchased the STS-32 patch from Space World in Cocoa Beach. At that time Tom had a relatively small display in a store across A1A from Ron Jon's. His patch (made overseas I suspect) had very clean stitching and was very accurate to the artwork. It bothered me that it could be done but apparently not by AB.

So I guess my point is that I try to purchase patches that most accurately follow the original artwork and will purchase additional patches for a flight when the crew is wearing something different. Expedition 12 for example.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 01-02-2006 11:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have an example of the "four color" flame STS-1 patch with 'USA' clearly readable on the wing of Columbia. It is much thinner than modern AB patches, or even early AB examples. The stitching is not as tight and the wax backing is much more flexible (though that may also be a result of its age). I also have an STS-2 example that is similar in its construction.

Voyager1975
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posted 01-29-2009 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voyager1975   Click Here to Email Voyager1975     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is my understanding that the STS-1 mission patch worn by Crippen and Young was not sold to the general public. Only made in limited quantities for the crew and some to be flown on the flight to give out to family, friends and co-workers by the crew after the mission was over.

As stated by two people on this thread, they bought the AB Emblem patch in 1981 at the time of the launch and it was the two flame variation, like the ones AB Emblem manufactures to this day. So I am guessing that any four flame variations like the ones the crew wore were made by a different patch company and not AB Emblem.

Harald Kraenzel
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posted 01-29-2009 05:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harald Kraenzel   Click Here to Email Harald Kraenzel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To my knowledge the four flame variation also was made by AB Emblem.

Please have a look at Chris Spain's "Crew Patches" page and here specially the one for STS-1.

Voyager1975
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posted 01-29-2009 06:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voyager1975   Click Here to Email Voyager1975     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes Exactly. AB Emblem made two variations, the four flame which was made for the crew and NASA and the two flame variant that they sold to the public. AB Emblem did not sell the four flame variant to the general public. Therefore, if there is a four flame version out there that someone may have then it must be from a different patch company and not AB Emblem.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 01-29-2009 09:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Voyager1975:
Therefore, if there is a four flame version out there that someone may have then it must be from a different patch company and not AB Emblem.
Or, in the 28 years that have passed since STS-1's launch, the patches made for the crew and mission have entered the secondary market.

I have had a chance since posting in 2006 to compare my STS-1 "four color" flame patch to one of the crew-sourced patches and they are identical. I have no reason to believe the patch I (and others) own is not an original.

A good thing to keep in mind: 2,000 STS-1 patches flew on STS-1 and as best as I am aware, all of them were of the "four color" flame variety.

andrewcli
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posted 01-29-2009 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for andrewcli   Click Here to Email andrewcli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Like Robert said, over 2,000 crew patches were flown. Additionally, I am sure the crew gave out many to various friends and NASA employees.

Again, these patches were not available to the public and people who do have them most likely got them on eBay or auctions from these same individuals. Chris Spain estimated that nine STS-1 crew patches were sold in 2008.

As to the rarity of this particular patch, there are far better examples such as the Gemini patches (4 patches of Gemini 8 were made) or even the silver or gold "XV" Apollo 15 variant crew patch, probably also made by AB emblems.

spaced out
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posted 01-30-2009 02:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unflown examples of the 'crew' STS-1 version were sent out to a large number of space program workers (NASA and contractors) after the flight. I have no idea just how many of these letters were sent but I'd guess many thousands.

As Andrew pointed out, AB Emblem were used by NASA or the crews to produce limited runs of special patches for other missions too - Apollo 14 (backup crew patch), Apollo 15 (silver and gold crew patches), Apollo 17 (the initialed patches), Apollo-Soyuz (initialed patches), STS-3 (initialed patches)....

In most cases these runs were limited to a few hundred examples at most. The patches were delivered direct to NASA and never sold to the public.

It's only over time that some of these patches have found their way from the collections of former space workers on to the secondary market.

Voyager1975
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posted 01-30-2009 10:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voyager1975   Click Here to Email Voyager1975     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert, Andrew and Chris, I totally agree with you guys.

Very interesting stuff! That would all make perfect sense too because we do know that the originals were made by AB Emblem and they were all four flame variants.

Also if you guys notice on the originals the space shuttle on the original patch has a white orbiter, and a gray external tank and gray twin solid rocket boosters. On the AB Emblem replica the (two flame version) as well as the three flame Lion Brothers patch not just the orbiter but the external tank and twin solid rocket boosters are all white. I noticed those differences as well not just in the number of flames between the original crew patch and the replicas.

andrewcli
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posted 01-30-2009 11:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for andrewcli   Click Here to Email andrewcli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Voyager, you are right. I actually have two STS-1 crew patches with subtle changes in the thread color of the SRBs.

I also remember Chris had a STS-1 patch that actually had a 5th color added (brown), just below the right main engine. By the way, it wasn't dirt, because I checked under the microscope.

He concluded that this was an authentic "crew" patch, not a replica. But I do wonder if this is an error patch because the brown flame is not below the left main engine for symmetry.

I consider these examples as minor variants, unlike the three Apollo 12 variants, which are really different. It's unclear if AB made any of these Apollo 12 crew patches, but mostly likely it was done by the same manufacturer.

Nonetheless, the STS-1 crew patches were still made by AB emblems even though there are subtle differences among them, whether it was deliberate or a different production run remains to be determined.

Voyager1975
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posted 01-30-2009 12:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voyager1975   Click Here to Email Voyager1975     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Andrew, I have never seen a five flame variant with the brown flames below the right main engine. Interesting, I would like to know more about that one. We obviously know that Crippen and Young wore the four flame patch that went from yellow to pale orange and two shades of red but no brown.

Harald Kraenzel
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posted 01-31-2009 02:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harald Kraenzel   Click Here to Email Harald Kraenzel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
After reading the last entries for this post I looked through my flour flame patches and discovered one minor difference and I am not sure whether it is one or not.

If you have a look at the above "brown" four flame patch you will see a "large US flag" on the left wing of the orbiter.

If you look at Chris Spain's site you will see the same.

If you have a look at the Heritage Auction where the patch John Young wears on board of Columbia during STS-1 is offered it looks to me that the US flag is a larger one also.

I do have six four flame patches showing a small US flag and one showing a larger US flag.

So I as asking myself whether there have been different runs or whether the stitching machines did work differently.

Another minor difference these patches show is that the "smaller US flag" patches do have white thread for a lot of areas like f.e. the SRBs and the ET while the "large US flag" patch do have grey thread for these areas.

Further on the blue features shown on earth are slightly darker for the "large US flag" patch while it is lighter for the "smaller US flag" patch.

These differences for my point of view clearly support different runs of this kind of patches.

Voyager1975
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posted 01-31-2009 02:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voyager1975   Click Here to Email Voyager1975     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think there are different variants of flags on wings in these patches it just looks like part of the stitching. In other words, the way the stitching came out. I think it was just the way the red threads were stitched by the machines.

andrewcli
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posted 01-31-2009 03:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for andrewcli   Click Here to Email andrewcli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also remember that these patches are more than 28 years old. Depending if they were exposed to light or handling over the years, these factors could affect its color and wear on the threads.

If they are different production runs, the batch to batch variation is very minor and one should not assume that one variant is the "real deal" over the others. On the other hand, this is not the case with the Apollo 12 "crew" MQF variant patches.

Harald Kraenzel
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posted 01-31-2009 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harald Kraenzel   Click Here to Email Harald Kraenzel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by andrewcli:
Depending if they were exposed to light or handling over the years, these factors could affect its color and wear on the threads.
OK, understand but the grey colored areas are not the result of wear. This is definately different colored thread. Just what I can see on my patch.
quote:
Again, if they are different production runs, the batch to batch variation is very minor and one should not assume that one variant is the "real deal" over the others.
I was not thinking of a "real deal". I was just looking at my patches and detected different things which I described above.

Ken Havekotte
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posted 01-31-2009 04:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One of my flown STS-1 patches that came from the crew only has the "yellow-to-red" exhaust or flame variety. My other STS-1 patches, from my own 1981 vintage-era collection, does indeed contain many different variations.

Perhaps the most colorful crew patch from Columbia's maiden voyage is a framed one on my studio wall that was displayed along with a flown-used STS-1/Columbia brake disk segment. That particular cloth patch was produced by Rockwell's Space Division, prime contractor builder of the shuttle orbiter spaceplanes.

Voyager1975
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posted 02-01-2009 09:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voyager1975   Click Here to Email Voyager1975     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert Crippen and John Young flew two flame (yellow to red) STS-1 mission patches? That's news to me. Never heard of that before.

aerospace educator
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posted 02-01-2009 10:10 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here are two images of Bob Crippen just prior to STS-1. The first (launch and entry suit) is from 19 March 1981, and the other (blue flight coveralls) is from 11 April 1981. I have included blow-up details of the patches he wore. They both look like the three-colour (red, orange, yellow) flame. Other details, such as the flag, are not clearly visible in these images.

Voyager1975
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posted 02-01-2009 10:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voyager1975   Click Here to Email Voyager1975     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those patches that they are wearing in the picture are the original four flame crew patch. It is just hard pick up the pale orange color from these photos.

We have seen pictures of the actual patches that Crippen and Young wore. The patch is clearly the four flame variant. It goes from yellow to pale orange and a lighter red and lastly a darker red.

Jacques van Oene
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posted 02-01-2009 11:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jacques van Oene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I do not know if this will be any help to the discussion but I took the following photos last November in the Astronaut Hall of Fame in Florida: I do believe the flight jackets were handed to the Hall of Fame by the astronauts so I think they walked around in them for some time...

Ken Havekotte
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posted 02-01-2009 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just for the record, so-to-speak, one of my primary STS-1 flown patches, referred to in a prior post here, came from the crew signed by Young and Crippen as well.

It was presented to the SRB launch processing team here at Kennedy. Mounted alongside the mission patch is a large 7+"x12" American flag, which is uncommon for a flown flag of this size.

I just don't know if the reported 2,000 flown patches aboard STS-1 were all of the exact same production type and quality (Robert)?

As with many prior spaceflight missions before STS-1, the astronaut office would receive a variety of different crew patches
(i.e. from patch manufacturers like AB and Lions), but certainly not all of them that were used by the crews came from these embroidery companies. Others would come from major aerospace contractor companies that had close ties to their NASA agencies.

What I do know for sure and feel quite confident with is the flown patch referred to here. It came from the astronaut office, awarded to a prime aerospace company team in 1981, and was hand-signed by both crewmembers; "This flag and crew patch were flown aboard the Space Shuttle "Columbia" (STS-1) April 12-14, 1981... With many thanks for your outstanding support of the first Space Shuttle launch."

Let me try to acquire more information about the flown patches and I'll report here if successful. Meanwhile, if anyone else can help shed more information on this topic, please do share with all of us.

Harald Kraenzel
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posted 02-01-2009 01:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harald Kraenzel   Click Here to Email Harald Kraenzel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wonderful pictures, Jacques. Specially the second one. This shows what I think is a "large US flag" patch.

I put together some different pictures/scans to show what I am talking of. Maybe I am right or not. If you see the patches placed side by side you can see the different sizes of the US flag more clearly. Click to enlarge.

Voyager1975
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posted 02-01-2009 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voyager1975   Click Here to Email Voyager1975     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Harald- I see what you mean. Maybe someone else has another take on it, but it still looks to me that the flags on the wings of the STS-1 patches is that it is just the way they came out by the machines stitching the threads rather than a different variant. I could be wrong though but that's just what I feel when I look at them.

Voyager1975
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posted 02-08-2009 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voyager1975   Click Here to Email Voyager1975     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone have anymore information about the five flame variation (small brown flame underneath the right main engine). Do we know if they flew those types on the mission, if they were among the 2,000 patches flown? If it is an authentic crew patch and not I replica then I guess they did. Just wondering if anyone knew anything else about that variant.

Voyager1975
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posted 03-01-2009 10:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voyager1975   Click Here to Email Voyager1975     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I recently got a hold of an original/early AB Emblem two-color flame version of the STS-1 mission patch that has a black stitched border (black stitching all around the edge of the white border). Does anyone know anything about this particular variant? Was there only a limited amount of these made? I believe they first put these out with the regular two-color flame white border when that came out in 1981 not sure though. If anyone has any information please get back to me. Thanks you.

Kevin T. Randall
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posted 03-02-2009 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The two original STS-1 AB Emblem patches that I acquired back in 1981 had the black stitched border. I got them from Stewart Aviation here in the U.K. Not sure who supplied Stewart Aviation but they were from the first batch they received from their suppliers in the U.S.

dingpatch
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posted 08-05-2013 06:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dingpatch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Greetings! I've just started to research all of my wife's and mine space flight memorabilia and found your excellent site! I grew up on the Space Coast and have lived in Brevard County since 1954. My father was a photog for RCA at the Cape. My wife moved here in the early '70's and worked on the shuttle Program from the early days until about 1990.

So, anyway, "First Up" was the STS-1 mission patch. My wife has the one that was given to the launch support team just prior to the mission. I've included scans of the front and back. The "globe" portion is 3 1/4 inches in diameter, and it is a "four color exhaust".

The coloring is very hard to tell by looking at the front, but when you look at the back you can see where it changes from orange to red. On the front the coloring exiting the shuttle goes from white to yellow to orange on the left side, and starts on the right side as orange, and turns to red as it exits the white border of the globe. The coloring of the exhaust from the main/vertical shuttle is just as hard to discern. Without a close look, the flame goes from yellow to the two different shades of red; your eye looses the deeper yellow under the horizontal shuttle.

I know that this is an old thread, but I hope that this helps.

Bill Nelson
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posted 10-20-2013 11:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bill Nelson   Click Here to Email Bill Nelson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have seen original four-color STS-1 patches, which are listed as having been put out by Rockwell International. Would those be the same AB Emblem four-color patches that were worn by the crew?

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