posted 11-09-2005 06:05 PM               

Authentic and replica patches are about 4" in diameter. "Souvenir" versions are about 3" in diameter.

posted 11-12-2005 12:41 PM               

Moving into the Shuttle era, with the exception of STS-1, the evidence becomes stronger that A-B Emblems produced most, if not all, of the official mission patches...

...although bids were usually submitted by several companies for each flight, A-B Emblems got the patch contracts for all missions since the mid-80's.

posted 11-12-2005 08:41 PM               

For example, it's not uncommon to see the Apollo astronauts wearing the Lion Brothers patches in vintage photos, and Lion Brothers patches were often flown on the missions (along with the AB patches).

The "official" Apollo 1 patch was made by Stylized Emblem of Hollywood, CA. The Apollo 11 patch that the astronauts wore on their isolation garments was made by a company in Houston. Then there's the Apollo 10 patch the astronauts wore on their suits for the official photo, which was provided to them by Grumman (and was made by a non-AB company).

As for STS-1, I've seen photos of Young and Crippen taken at different times over the years wearing both the AB and the Lion Bros patches. Here's a crew photo (for example) which seems to show them wearing the Lion Brothers patch (note the smoother gradation of color on the rocket exhaust).

posted 11-19-2005 04:12 PM               

So far as I know the STS-1 patch was manufactured in three versions having two, three and four colored flames. The three flame version was made by Lion Brothers.

I was told that there were a number of four colored patches which flew on board of Columbia during the STS-1 mission.

posted 01-02-2006 09:32 AM               

I have found that A-B Emblems quality suffered for a time. A case in point: in 1992 I worked at the "Spaceport USA" at KSC in the gift shop. I pointed out to my boss that the STS-32 patch did not include the two symbols placed at (9:00 and 3:00) on the patch. He showed me a photocopy of a letter from Dan Brandenstein which explained that those symbols could not be embroidered clearly by AB Emblem and so the crew decided to wear patches without those symbols.

I had purchased the STS-32 patch from Space World in Cocoa Beach. At that time Tom had a relatively small display in a store across A1A from Ron Jon's. His patch (made overseas I suspect) had very clean stitching and was very accurate to the artwork. It bothered me that it could be done but apparently not by AB.

posted 01-29-2009 09:02 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Voyager1975:
Therefore, if there is a four flame version out there that someone may have then it must be from a different patch company and not AB Emblem.

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I have had a chance since posting in 2006 to compare my STS-1 "four color" flame patch to one of the crew-sourced patches and they are identical. I have no reason to believe the patch I (and others) own is not an original.

posted 01-29-2009 09:31 PM               

Again, these patches were not available to the public and people who do have them most likely got them on eBay or auctions from these same individuals. Chris Spain estimated that nine STS-1 crew patches were sold in 2008.

posted 01-30-2009 02:09 AM               

As Andrew pointed out, AB Emblem were used by NASA or the crews to produce limited runs of special patches for other missions too - Apollo 14 (backup crew patch), Apollo 15 (silver and gold crew patches), Apollo 17 (the initialed patches), Apollo-Soyuz (initialed patches), STS-3 (initialed patches)....

In most cases these runs were limited to a few hundred examples at most. The patches were delivered direct to NASA and never sold to the public.

posted 01-30-2009 10:35 AM               

Very interesting stuff! That would all make perfect sense too because we do know that the originals were made by AB Emblem and they were all four flame variants.

posted 01-30-2009 11:56 AM               

I also remember Chris had a STS-1 patch that actually had a 5th color added (brown), just below the right main engine. By the way, it wasn't dirt, because I checked under the microscope.

He concluded that this was an authentic "crew" patch, not a replica. But I do wonder if this is an error patch because the brown flame is not below the left main engine for symmetry.

I consider these examples as minor variants, unlike the three Apollo 12 variants, which are really different. It's unclear if AB made any of these Apollo 12 crew patches, but mostly likely it was done by the same manufacturer.

posted 01-31-2009 02:40 PM               

If you have a look at the above "brown" four flame patch you will see a "large US flag" on the left wing of the orbiter.

If you look at Chris Spain's site you will see the same.

If you have a look at the Heritage Auction where the patch John Young wears on board of Columbia during STS-1 is offered it looks to me that the US flag is a larger one also.

I do have six four flame patches showing a small US flag and one showing a larger US flag.

So I as asking myself whether there have been different runs or whether the stitching machines did work differently.

Another minor difference these patches show is that the "smaller US flag" patches do have white thread for a lot of areas like f.e. the SRBs and the ET while the "large US flag" patch do have grey thread for these areas.

Further on the blue features shown on earth are slightly darker for the "large US flag" patch while it is lighter for the "smaller US flag" patch.

posted 01-31-2009 03:26 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by andrewcli:
Depending if they were exposed to light or handling over the years, these factors could affect its color and wear on the threads.

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quote:

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Again, if they are different production runs, the batch to batch variation is very minor and one should not assume that one variant is the "real deal" over the others.

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posted 02-01-2009 11:23 AM            

• STS-1 patch on Bob Crippen's jacket.
  
• STS-1 patch on John Young's jacket.
  
• STS-1 patch on John Young's jacket.

posted 02-01-2009 01:12 PM               

It was presented to the SRB launch processing team here at Kennedy. Mounted alongside the mission patch is a large 7+"x12" American flag, which is uncommon for a flown flag of this size.

I just don't know if the reported 2,000 flown patches aboard STS-1 were all of the exact same production type and quality (Robert)?

As with many prior spaceflight missions before STS-1, the astronaut office would receive a variety of different crew patches
(i.e. from patch manufacturers like AB and Lions), but certainly not all of them that were used by the crews came from these embroidery companies. Others would come from major aerospace contractor companies that had close ties to their NASA agencies.

What I do know for sure and feel quite confident with is the flown patch referred to here. It came from the astronaut office, awarded to a prime aerospace company team in 1981, and was hand-signed by both crewmembers; "This flag and crew patch were flown aboard the Space Shuttle "Columbia" (STS-1) April 12-14, 1981... With many thanks for your outstanding support of the first Space Shuttle launch."

posted 02-01-2009 01:18 PM               

I put together some different pictures/scans to show what I am talking of. Maybe I am right or not. If you see the patches placed side by side you can see the different sizes of the US flag more clearly. Click to enlarge.

posted 08-05-2013 06:49 PM               

So, anyway, "First Up" was the STS-1 mission patch. My wife has the one that was given to the launch support team just prior to the mission. I've included scans of the front and back. The "globe" portion is 3 1/4 inches in diameter, and it is a "four color exhaust".

The coloring is very hard to tell by looking at the front, but when you look at the back you can see where it changes from orange to red. On the front the coloring exiting the shuttle goes from white to yellow to orange on the left side, and starts on the right side as orange, and turns to red as it exits the white border of the globe. The coloring of the exhaust from the main/vertical shuttle is just as hard to discern. Without a close look, the flame goes from yellow to the two different shades of red; your eye looses the deeper yellow under the horizontal shuttle.

I know that this is an old thread, but I hope that this helps.