Space News
space history and artifacts articles

Messages
space history discussion forums

Sightings
worldwide astronaut appearances

Resources
selected space history documents

Websites
related space history websites

  collectSPACE: Messages
  Patches & Pins
  STS-61E mission patch: authentic vs. replica

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   STS-61E mission patch: authentic vs. replica
Bill Hunt
Member

Posts: 378
From: Irvine, CA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 10-25-2002 12:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bill Hunt   Click Here to Email Bill Hunt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've seen both "official" and souvenir images of this patch on a variety of great patch website (including the always excellent spacepatches.info) and I'm wondering... is the "official" patch an AB Emblems creation? Was this actually released to the public? Or was it an evaluation version that never saw widespread manufacture?

Jacques van Oene
Member

Posts: 715
From: Houten, The Netherlands
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 10-25-2002 05:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jacques van Oene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As far as I know only 50 or so real 61E patches were made. I do not know if these were evaluation versions, or already the final version.

I tried to get in contact with crewmembers of 61E about the patch but had no success, so if anybody could help, please do, thank you.

Bill Hunt
Member

Posts: 378
From: Irvine, CA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 10-25-2002 06:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bill Hunt   Click Here to Email Bill Hunt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Jacques. I appreciate the info. I'll see what I can do. You have a fantastic website, by the way. It's a wonderful resource that I appreciate greatly. Thanks for all your hard work.

Ben
Member

Posts: 1843
From: Daytona Beach, FL
Registered: May 2000

posted 08-22-2007 01:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ben   Click Here to Email Ben     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I received this replica 61-E patch today. While it is not an original, it is unlike any of the replicas I have seen to date. Does anyone have an idea of who may have made the patch?

lunarrv15
Member

Posts: 1295
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, Hamilton
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 08-25-2007 12:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunarrv15   Click Here to Email lunarrv15     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have the same patch AND the decal of the same design.

I question the patch is a "replica" for the reason the decal , like is said have, is same style.

I do not have a scanner for showing the decal. It came from a past penpal who's grandmother worked in the (what was then Lewis Research Center) gift shop.

So the decal came from NASA "and has the same design" why the isn't the patch viewed as authentic original?

The past ownership of CargBay Emblen was selling some of them of that design.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 27327
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-25-2007 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The design — as in the artwork — is not what Ben is labeling a "replica" but rather the patch itself. The original patch was made from two pieces sewn together, as can be seen on spacepatches.info.

This replica is all one piece and the stitching style is different from the original. The small thread lines you see connecting the letters is typical of the cheaper construction you see in souvenir patches.

Tom
Member

Posts: 1275
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 08-25-2007 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom   Click Here to Email Tom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also, didn't the "real" patch use lower case letters for the crew members names, whereas the souvenirs used all upper case letters?

keith.wilson
Member

Posts: 62
From: Callander, Stirling, Scotland
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 08-25-2007 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for keith.wilson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I may be mistaken but I believe that the original emblem design has the crew names in lowercase, but the 'official' patches as worn by the crew had their names in uppercase. Can anyone confirm this?

Bill Hunt
Member

Posts: 378
From: Irvine, CA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-26-2007 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bill Hunt   Click Here to Email Bill Hunt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's correct. I was lucky enough to find a original on eBay a few months back. The patch is all uppercase, while the original design has lowercase. You can see the original patch and the original artwork at that spacepatches.info link Rob posted above.

There are also multiple souvenir versions. Some of them were presumably made at the time the flight was to have happened, and some later. One of them is pictured in this thread, and two more are on spacepatches.info. I have a fourth version as well that attempts to more accurately replicate the actual evaluation patch, including the curvature of the rocker tab and an embroidered silver edge.

Tom
Member

Posts: 1275
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 08-26-2007 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom   Click Here to Email Tom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by keith.wilson:
I may be mistaken but I believe that the original emblem design has the crew names in lowercase, but the 'official' patches as worn by the crew had their names in uppercase. Can anyone confirm this?
I was able to zoom in on the 61E flight crew photo and the crew names on that patch seem to be lowercase.

keith.wilson
Member

Posts: 62
From: Callander, Stirling, Scotland
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 08-26-2007 03:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for keith.wilson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's an interesting observation. Are they wearing embroidered patches or are they just using decals (based on the original art) for the crew photo? Can anyone explain why we have this discrepancy between the original emblem art and what are believed to be the 'official' patches?

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 27327
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-26-2007 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Keith, if you look at the spacepatches.info link I posted above, the answer is quite clear. The crew wore decals/prints of the artwork (notice the light being reflected off them). The official crew evaluation patches had all uppercase letters, the official artwork did not.

Tom
Member

Posts: 1275
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 08-26-2007 04:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom   Click Here to Email Tom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert, by any chance would you happen to have a photo of Jon McBride wearing an STS-61E patch? I checked the "Sightings" area, but the patch wasn't close enough to distinguish upper from lowercase.

He does however appear to be wearing a cloth patch.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 27327
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-26-2007 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tom, to which Sightings pic do you refer? I only see McBride wearing the STS-41G patch.

Tom
Member

Posts: 1275
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 08-26-2007 05:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom   Click Here to Email Tom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry, my mistake, Robert. It was this one from Spacefacts website...

Tom
Member

Posts: 1275
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 08-26-2007 05:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom   Click Here to Email Tom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only shuttle crew patches to use lowercase lettering for the crew names were both McBrides... STS-41G and 61E.

Bill Hunt
Member

Posts: 378
From: Irvine, CA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-26-2007 10:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bill Hunt   Click Here to Email Bill Hunt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That spacefacts.de pic of McBride looks like the authentic patch. It's got the same wider arc on the sew-on tab that the original does.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 27327
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-26-2007 10:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This publicity still from the Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex shows McBride wearing an STS-61E patch:

lunarrv15
Member

Posts: 1295
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, Hamilton
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 04-17-2013 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunarrv15   Click Here to Email lunarrv15     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Two auctions of this patch just closed. One, an AB Emblem style, sold for $510. Another, a Randy Hunt as disclaimer says in the description, sold $125.

Kevin T. Randall
Member

Posts: 458
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 04-17-2013 03:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And I won both of them.

I didn't want to pay as much as $125.95 for the Randy Hunt replica patch, but I wanted it to complete the set of all known versions of this STS-61E patch.

I've only ever seen one other Randy Hunt replica patch up for sale before, that was about 5 or 6 years ago. I think it sold for about $40 to $50.

Liembo
Member

Posts: 55
From: Bothell, WA, USA
Registered: Jan 2013

posted 04-17-2013 04:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Liembo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I picked up this version on eBay a month ago for $10. It has a bare cloth back and a taped tail:

OV-105
Member

Posts: 589
From: Ridgecrest, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 04-17-2013 06:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for OV-105   Click Here to Email OV-105     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I saw the AB one that sold $510 on Monday. I really wanted those 3 inch patches that were in that set. LOL. It went out of my price range right near the end. to me that is one of the three hard to find, Jarvis-Walker 51-D, 61-E, and STS-42 Carter. I have the Jarvis-Walker so two to go.

spaced out
Member

Posts: 2597
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 04-18-2013 02:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Liembo:
I picked up this version on eBay a month ago for $10. It has a bare cloth back and a taped tail.
That's the most commonly seen replica version of this patch. I'm going to updating that page of my site soon to add the Randy Hunt version and the version shown towards the top of this thread.

Liembo
Member

Posts: 55
From: Bothell, WA, USA
Registered: Jan 2013

posted 04-18-2013 05:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Liembo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by spaced out:
That's the most commonly seen replica version of this patch.
Is the scarcity term "common" relative to the specific mission's patches or overall? I have seen fewer of this particular STS-61E reproduction than I have of the "rare" gold bordered Apollo 16 back up crew patch on eBay, and certainly less than the "scarce" Lion Brothers Apollo 16 patches (as an example).

mooncollector
Member

Posts: 75
From: Alabama, USA
Registered: Feb 2011

posted 04-18-2013 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mooncollector   Click Here to Email mooncollector     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Liembo:
I picked up this version on eBay a month ago for $10. It has a bare cloth back and a taped tail.

If I had been able to be at my computer when it closed it would either have sold for a lot more than $10, or I would have it now. I was unable to bid at the last moment due to unforeseen circumstances. That one got away.

Does anyone know who made the lower-case replica? That is the closest to the official NASA artwork and I tend to prefer those.

I'll take any one of the 61-E's I can get, though...

spaced out
Member

Posts: 2597
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 04-19-2013 01:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've removed the term 'common' from the entries for those two replica patches. The 'scarcity' entry is only intended as a general guide and is not really important for replicas.

mooncollector
Member

Posts: 75
From: Alabama, USA
Registered: Feb 2011

posted 05-12-2013 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mooncollector   Click Here to Email mooncollector     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can anyone at all tell us who made the various replicas? I suspect that versions of this one are still to be had out there from somewhere like Stewart Emblems in the UK, but no one ever states who it was that offered these (or may still offer them).

I stumbled across one of the Swissartex 51-E patches that were offered on ebay about a month ago, but ANY 61-E is proving to be tough.

Gonzo
Member

Posts: 374
From: Lansing, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 05-13-2013 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gonzo   Click Here to Email Gonzo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know who made it, my records don't show. They only show I got it in March, 1991 from Eagle 1 Aerospace. But the SINGLE 61-E that I have is the lowercase version. It is all one piece (not tabbed). It has a bare-cloth back with only a very small tail behind the corner of the tab by Parker/Richards. I'd post a scan, but my scanner is about 70 miles away.

If I had to guess, I'd say AB was the maker looking at the stitching, but that's a guess and could easily be wrong.

embangloy
Member

Posts: 68
From: Hendersonville, TN, USA
Registered: Aug 2007

posted 05-14-2013 11:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for embangloy   Click Here to Email embangloy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a one piece STS-61E patch that I personally purchased from Mr. Harry Bernard at his shop in Lompoc, CA in 2003. I saw one displayed on his wall and asked if he had another for sale. A few moments later, he came out with the patch. The patch is identical to the decal; upper and lower case lettering, and the colors are stellar. Mr. Bernard told me that his shop was commissioned to make approximately 2000 patches to distribute to NASA gift shops. A very nice man; Mr. Bernard was very genuine and very thorough with his history and production.

My STS-61E patch may not be the coveted two-piece patch that most collectors yearn for, but the personal interaction with Mr. Bernard makes receiving this patch unique and "official" in my collector mind.

mooncollector
Member

Posts: 75
From: Alabama, USA
Registered: Feb 2011

posted 05-20-2013 09:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mooncollector   Click Here to Email mooncollector     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DONE!

I wonder if the lowercase type of replica (which I just won) is more plentiful than the upper-case. I have seen maybe 3 or 4 different types pictured here, mostly the one-piece ones without the excess curvature on the "tabbed" part.

Not even many replicas of this thing show up out there. Thanks maarten!

mama04
Member

Posts: 125
From: Haarlem, N-H, Netherlands
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 05-20-2013 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mama04   Click Here to Email mama04     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My pleasure Stephen. Patch is packed and ready to go, enjoy!

All times are CT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Source for Space History & Artifacts

Copyright 1999-2012 collectSPACE.com All rights reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47a





advertisement