Space News
space history and artifacts articles

Messages
space history discussion forums

Sightings
worldwide astronaut appearances

Resources
selected space history documents

Websites
related space history websites

  collectSPACE: Messages
  Models & Toys
  NASA T-38 'Talon' training jet scale models (Page 2)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search


This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   NASA T-38 'Talon' training jet scale models
NeilPearson
Member

Posts: 97
From: UK
Registered: May 2013

posted 12-02-2016 12:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeilPearson   Click Here to Email NeilPearson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by David C:
This first release of a chase plane for the STS-3 recovery seems to be a slightly odd choice of NASA T-38 to my way of thinking, but very welcome nonetheless.
This is certainly on my wishlist!

With regards to the scheme chosen, having worked with William at Hobby Master on a couple of projects, I know they favour schemes where commercial decal sheets are available, rather than designing them from scratch, so that may be the reason.

David C
Member

Posts: 645
From: Pasadena
Registered: Apr 2012

posted 12-04-2016 10:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So does anyone know more about the STS-3 chase team?

Hobby Master say N923NA was one of the (four?) landing chase aircraft, and there are pictures of it flying chase for the STS-3 launch.

The front seaters were:
Chase 1: Dick Covey
Chase 2: Charlie Justiz
Chase 3: Guy Gardner
Chase 4: Bryan O'Connor

Any ideas on backseaters and who was aboard 923?

cspg
Member

Posts: 5673
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006

posted 02-14-2017 01:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Of interest:
Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA5403
Northrop T-38A Talon "Jackie Cochran"
60-0551, Edward Air Force Base,
California, 1961

Jacqueline Jackie Cochran was born into poverty but achieved greatness as she grew up. Jackie began air racing in the late 1930s and in June 1941 she was the first woman to fly a bomber across the Atlantic Ocean. In 1943 was appointed to the General Staff of the USAAF to direct the Women Airforce Service Pilots (WASP) program. Jackie was the first woman to break the sound barrier, set distance and altitude records and averaged a speed of 844mph while flying Northrop T-38A Talon 60-0551.

cspg
Member

Posts: 5673
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006

posted 02-23-2017 10:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series (HA5401)
Pictures of the finished model.

David C
Member

Posts: 645
From: Pasadena
Registered: Apr 2012

posted 02-25-2017 11:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not bad, I'll be getting one. The black leading edges look a bit heavy handed though.

Greggy_D
Member

Posts: 920
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006

posted 03-03-2017 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greggy_D   Click Here to Email Greggy_D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by David C:
So does anyone know more about the STS-3 chase team?
Now here's a coincidence. Some years ago I acquired various flight suits and equipment that once belonged to Bob Gray (TV Chase for STS-3). Included was a framed photo (with caption) of the entire STS-3 Chase Team.

David C
Member

Posts: 645
From: Pasadena
Registered: Apr 2012

posted 03-04-2017 02:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, thanks. Matching backseaters to pilots is tricky. In their JSC oral histories both Covey and O'Connor claim McNair was aboard their aircraft. O'Connor adds extra details about McNair's use of a 16mm camera. This leads me to think it's possible that Covey misremembered. Unfortunately Jerry Ross makes no mention of his shuttle chase experience in either his book or oral history. Perhaps I'll get a chance to ask him at Spacefest.

In the absence of other evidence my best guess is:
1. Covey/ Ross
2. Justiz/ Stanley
3. Gardner/ Gray
4. O'Connor/ McNair

NeilPearson
Member

Posts: 97
From: UK
Registered: May 2013

posted 03-28-2017 02:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeilPearson   Click Here to Email NeilPearson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've received a copy of this model and I'm pretty happy with it. As David highlighted earlier, the black on the leading edges is a little thick but I think we're all guilty of examining these things from an inch away! When the model is viewed from a sensible distance, it's not particularly noticeable.

There were two suggestions that I made to HM which I'm pleased were taken on board: to give the crew blue flight suits and helmets (instead of the usual green ones they supply) and to include a baggage pod.

It can be displayed on the stand or with the undercarriage down and there are either open or closed canopy options.

cspg
Member

Posts: 5673
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006

posted 03-29-2017 07:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NeilPearson:
...the black on the leading edges is a little thick
Does that mean that the wing is thicker than it should be? If that's the case maybe Hobby Master wanted to stick to metal for the wings instead of using plastic because of the wing's thinness. (They used plastic for the wings of their Mig-23 model.)

NeilPearson
Member

Posts: 97
From: UK
Registered: May 2013

posted 03-29-2017 11:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeilPearson   Click Here to Email NeilPearson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my opinion the wings are an acceptable thickness considering they are metal and at 1/72 scale. They are comparable to the HM F-5 and F-104 wings in terms of thickness at the leading edge but the black paint makes them appear thicker when viewed close up.

Greggy_D
Member

Posts: 920
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006

posted 03-29-2017 11:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greggy_D   Click Here to Email Greggy_D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Forgive me for being obtuse, but how do we purchase this model?

Panther494
Member

Posts: 181
From: London UK
Registered: Jan 2013

posted 03-30-2017 03:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Panther494   Click Here to Email Panther494     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the US, The Flying Mule has it on pre-order. Expected April delivery.

NeilPearson
Member

Posts: 97
From: UK
Registered: May 2013

posted 03-30-2017 04:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeilPearson   Click Here to Email NeilPearson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And it's 35 years ago today that N923NA accompanied Columbia to land at White Sands!

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 38148
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 05-03-2017 12:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Panther494:
In the US, The Flying Mule has it on pre-order.
As of today (May 3), it is now listed as in stock.

cspg
Member

Posts: 5673
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006

posted 05-03-2017 01:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Flying Mule shipped my T-38 yesterday (May 2).

cspg
Member

Posts: 5673
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006

posted 05-04-2017 05:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Flying Mule website announces a second T-38 model with 1960s livery due November 2017:
Hobby Master 1:72 Air Power Series HA5405
Northrop T-38A Talon Diecast Model
NASA, #901, Ellington Field, TX, 1960s

David C
Member

Posts: 645
From: Pasadena
Registered: Apr 2012

posted 05-04-2017 07:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's USAF 63-8181, the Gemini 9 prime crew fatal mishap airplane of 28 February 1966. A good choice I think.

mode1charlie
Member

Posts: 988
From: Honolulu, HI
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 05-04-2017 06:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mode1charlie   Click Here to Email mode1charlie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Seems a bit morbid to me. (But I might get it anyway.)

cspg
Member

Posts: 5673
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006

posted 05-11-2017 07:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Would you considerer models of shuttle Challenger and Columbia morbid?

cspg
Member

Posts: 5673
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006

posted 05-11-2017 07:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looking at the box of the T-38 model, I was wondering how many models with NASA livery could be produced (like Century Wings' SR-71s)?

The model differs from the photo illustrating two sides of the box by having the "worm" logo on its tail (the picture has the "meatball").

If you look closely at the six aircraft in the photo, from right to left, the second one has a different nose and blue markings and the third one has the same nose as the second but with the blue livery of the first. The fourth is like the second model. It seems then that there are two different models (leaving the worm/meatball issue aside).

So I was wondering how many T-38 models are in NASA's fleet and so how many potential Hobby Master models? This series is a new one:

  • HA5401 - Columbia chase plane (NASA)
  • HA5403 - Jackie Cochran model (USAF)
  • HA5405 - See/Bassett model (NASA)

NeilPearson
Member

Posts: 97
From: UK
Registered: May 2013

posted 05-11-2017 08:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeilPearson   Click Here to Email NeilPearson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You may recognise my name from the front of your T-38 box.

The first NASA release, '923' with the worm logo, is a T-38A. During the early 2000's, an upgrade program started (T-38 Propulsion Modernization Program, or PMP) which included replacing the slanted air intakes with straight (vertical) ones for better take-off performance.

They've also received a weather radar as part of an avionics upgrade, which can be identified by the different nose which lacks the pitot probe.

My photos date back to 2006 when the fleet was in a mixed state of upgrades, hence some have different noses, intakes, nozzles and blue-line paint schemes.

Hobbymaster will be releasing a 'modern' T-38N, with the latest modifications and meatball tail, in due course.

cspg
Member

Posts: 5673
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006

posted 05-11-2017 09:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NeilPearson:
You may recognise my name from the front of your T-38 box.
A detail that I've missed!

Greggy_D
Member

Posts: 920
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006

posted 05-11-2017 05:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greggy_D   Click Here to Email Greggy_D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Panther494:
In the US, The Flying Mule has it.
Thank you for your assistance! I just ordered the model today and it's going to make a fantastic display with Bob Gray's STS-3 Chase flight suit.

David C
Member

Posts: 645
From: Pasadena
Registered: Apr 2012

posted 05-11-2017 06:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cspg:
So I was wondering how many T-38 models are in NASA's fleet and so how many potential Hobby Master models?
The fleet size has varied over the years. During Apollo the MSC fleet peaked at around 29 airframes (some of which were accident replacements). Of course other NASA centers had some T-38s.

They started out with block 50 T-38As, and went up to block 85 by the end of ASTP. Later, as Neil mentioned, many of these got a glass cockpit and weather radar — and a few years after that the intake/nozzle upgrade to full T-38N standard.

Greggy_D
Member

Posts: 920
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006

posted 05-12-2017 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greggy_D   Click Here to Email Greggy_D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I asked Jerry Ross on Facebook yesterday about the STS-3 chase crew pairings. He left two responses:
I flew with Guy Gardner. I think Ron McNair flew with Dick Covey. Not sure if Bob flew with Bryan O.

Rats! Not sure if Bob flew with Bryan or Charlie. They (Pete and Bob) switched around quite a bit.

David C
Member

Posts: 645
From: Pasadena
Registered: Apr 2012

posted 05-12-2017 01:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for that, looks like my guess was well off.

328KF
Member

Posts: 1088
From:
Registered: Apr 2008

posted 05-22-2017 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 328KF   Click Here to Email 328KF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I received this very nice model this week. Great detail and display options. The baggage pod was a great addition but if I hadn't read about it here I might have missed it. It is in a plastic bag taped to the packaging along with the gear doors and a small square cover for the display stand hole should you choose not to use the stand.

For those who have the connections to offer suggestions, I think getting the flight suit/ helmet colors right on the See/Bassett aircraft would be a big plus.

David C
Member

Posts: 645
From: Pasadena
Registered: Apr 2012

posted 05-23-2017 01:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 328KF:
I think getting the flight suit/ helmet colors right on the See/Bassett aircraft would be a big plus.
They are going to be '60s blue suits and white helmets which will look better. Not sure if See and Bassett had customised helmets like some other astronauts.

The blue suits and helmets with this release are pretty close, but really don't look good because the pilot figures themselves are so poor.

328KF
Member

Posts: 1088
From:
Registered: Apr 2008

posted 05-23-2017 10:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 328KF   Click Here to Email 328KF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's great. Thanks for the news.

Gene Cernan, in writing about the St Louis accident flight in his book, described:

"The white helmets of See and Bassett appeared in their canopy like a pair of ping pong balls in a clear plastic tube."

David C
Member

Posts: 645
From: Pasadena
Registered: Apr 2012

posted 05-23-2017 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 328KF:
"The white helmets of See and Bassett appeared in their canopy like a pair of ping pong balls in a clear plastic tube."

Thanks, good enough for me.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 38148
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 05-23-2017 12:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can the current model be displayed without the pilots (i.e. are the pilots removable)?

David C
Member

Posts: 645
From: Pasadena
Registered: Apr 2012

posted 05-23-2017 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes it can.

GoesTo11
Member

Posts: 1275
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 05-24-2017 02:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cernan's account of the St. Louis crash also mentions that See and Bassett's aircraft was equipped with the travel pod carrying all four astronauts' clothing and personal effects...so the HM model is accurate in that respect as well.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 38148
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 06-29-2017 12:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hobby Master pre-production photos of NASA 901 (HA5405, October 2017):

cycleroadie
Member

Posts: 445
From: Apalachin, NY USA
Registered: May 2011

posted 10-17-2017 06:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cycleroadie   Click Here to Email cycleroadie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Hobby Master pre-production photos of NASA 901
These are showing up in the states, mine just shipped.


This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 

All times are CT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Source for Space History & Artifacts

Copyright 2017 collectSPACE.com All rights reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47a





advertisement