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  [Poll] Demand for a 1:32 Lunar Module model (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   [Poll] Demand for a 1:32 Lunar Module model
Cunumdrum61
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From: Australia
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posted 03-09-2012 09:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cunumdrum61     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am doing a little unscientific polling on behalf of a manufacturer to get some feedback.

How many of you guys would buy a 1/32 scale Apollo Lunar Module? It would be a standard injection molded kit. Complete set of decals for all LEMs and foil to represent the thermal blankets would be included. A photo etch sheet would also be included for some of the smaller items and antennas. You would be able to build any Apollo LEM from the kit.

PeterO
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From: Rochester, NH
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posted 03-09-2012 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeterO   Click Here to Email PeterO     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm in! How about a Surveyor to go with the Apollo 12 version?

ilbasso
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posted 03-09-2012 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ilbasso   Click Here to Email ilbasso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Definitely, count me in for a couple of them.

history in miniature
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posted 03-09-2012 09:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for history in miniature   Click Here to Email history in miniature     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Count me in for a couple, maybe more.

lordolsen
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posted 03-09-2012 09:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lordolsen   Click Here to Email lordolsen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am looking for a 1/32 LM, so count me in!

apolloprojeckt
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From: arnhem netherlands
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posted 03-09-2012 09:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for apolloprojeckt   Click Here to Email apolloprojeckt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, me too.

alexbaja
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From: Naxxar, Malta
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posted 03-09-2012 10:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for alexbaja   Click Here to Email alexbaja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Me Me Me too!

Rick Mulheirn
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posted 03-09-2012 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ditto. But as I get older and my eyesight deteriorates, I would really like a built finished example along the lines of the Dragon Apollo 11 LM.

jutrased
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From: North Smithfield, RI USA
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posted 03-09-2012 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jutrased   Click Here to Email jutrased     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Same here. I'd be interested but only in a completed model. My kit building days are long gone.

Cunumdrum61
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From: Australia
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posted 03-09-2012 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cunumdrum61     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry guys this would be an unassembled kit only.

alexbaja
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From: Naxxar, Malta
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posted 03-09-2012 11:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for alexbaja   Click Here to Email alexbaja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let's hope that they go into detail as at this scale we all expect that.

dog320
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From: West Sussex, United Kingdom
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posted 03-09-2012 11:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dog320     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Absolutely but with five provisos:
  • It must be accurate - no "Dragon type" errors.
  • All three windows MUST be transparent.
  • The forward hatch must have open or closed options (or function).
  • An "in flight" display (with stand and lunar surface sensing probes) must be possible.
  • External "stores" (MESA, ALSEP, LRV etc) must be deployable.
I to would far prefer a good pre-built version (Hobby Master, Ban Dai?) but agree that a poor version would be a waste of time.

apolloprojeckt
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From: arnhem netherlands
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posted 03-09-2012 12:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for apolloprojeckt   Click Here to Email apolloprojeckt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think to most info is to get by Vincent Meens, he build a very, very accurate LM, but than 1/24.

Retro Rocket
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From: Santa Paula, Ca,. USA
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posted 03-09-2012 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Retro Rocket   Click Here to Email Retro Rocket     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Accurate Miniatures/Custom Replicas has had their 1/32nd LEM in the works for quite some time, for those who know their work, like the 1/20 F-1, it's truly outstanding. The late John Ortmann contributed much to the design and his CAD illustrations of the LEM's are the best I've ever seen. The project has been on hold for years but they do have a lot of work done already.

I don't know why someone hasn't already built one, I think it would be the #1 highest requested Real Space model.

Cunumdrum61
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posted 03-09-2012 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cunumdrum61     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I do not think you will see the Accurate Miniatures/Custom Replicas LEM anytime soon. It is on indefinite hold status as far as I know and how long have we been waiting for it? Also I hate to think what it will cost. This kit if it is produced would be considerable less and you would be able to buy probally two or more for the same cost as the CR version.What they have produced so far is really nice though, so please I am not knocking thier work only it has been at least 4 years and we are still waiting for it.

GACspaceguy
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From: Guyton, GA
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posted 03-09-2012 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Count me in and send mine to Steve so I can be first on his build list.

alexbaja
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From: Naxxar, Malta
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posted 03-09-2012 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for alexbaja   Click Here to Email alexbaja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my opinion whichever comes first, as long as the scale is larger than a 1:48 and is accurate in detail I will take the plunge.

Retro Rocket
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posted 03-09-2012 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Retro Rocket   Click Here to Email Retro Rocket     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree, it's too bad it's been shelved for so long, before John Ortmann passed we were talking about doing some projects, I was going to have him do the X-15 pilot and cockpit and the LEM but he had already started it with AM/CR.

I can't imagine a kit as nice or detailed costing less than their estimates unless it was done as a regular injection mold kit. I was thinking it might be good start to make a kit without the interior which could be added later, and the basic details which would allow others to offer super detailed kits.

If I didn't have a bunch of unassembled Topping LEM's I would think about doing something like that, but for now I'm wrapping up the X-15 and finishing the 1/40th XB-70 master.

arjuna
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posted 03-09-2012 03:20 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm in, assuming the accuracy is high - which I assume anyone going to the trouble would strive for anyway.

Jay Chladek
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posted 03-09-2012 03:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, injection tooling is about the only way I could see a LM being done in 1/32 to hold up to abuse as resin landing legs are too delicate and not everyone can solder brass legs.

If there is indeed a 1/32 LM in the works, it would be a very nice thing. I highly recommend getting a hold of the Space In Miniature book on the Lunar Module as it contains a lot of research into the location of various features on the LMs, not to mention the foil patterns for the manned missions from Apollo 9 to 17.

Personally, I would love to see one in 1/32 so I can dock one with a Monogram CSM. But it should also include open sections on the descent module for some of the ALSEP packages (they can be built folded and foiled for an inflight display) and a couple 1/32 astronaut figures as well.

And if the company wanted to, they could do an H mission LM first, then do a J mission later with the rover cutout and two rovers (one folded, one extended as opposed to trying to make one do both). Or if the LM had parts to do both H and J missions (with a filler piece for the quadrant where the rover goes), an LRV could be marketed as a separate kit with two J mission Apollo astronauts with the revised A7LB suits and different umbilical locations (Space In Miniature Book 8 is a good resource for the Apollo suits).

Marketing a rover that way would allow for modelers to have diorama potential away from the LM and its price point being less than the LM, more would potentially sell.

Now if Dragon were to do it (or somebody else), a figure set with just astronauts (and maybe the Apollo 14 rickshaw and the LRV) would be cool in 1/32. They could do a set of modular figures with some accessories. So if somebody wanted to, they could stick a "Dave Scott" astronaut in the upper hatch of the LM, doing the 360 photo survey and panoramic picture pass.

the clocks running
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posted 03-09-2012 04:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the clocks running     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would definitely love to build a kit like this!

Retro Rocket
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posted 03-09-2012 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Retro Rocket   Click Here to Email Retro Rocket     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I believe the LM resin model would be supported by a clear rod inside the descent nozzle so the legs would not have to support the load, also AM/CR leg parts were metal if I recall correctly.

Jay Chladek
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posted 03-10-2012 12:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The only problem with resin kits is not even all modelers can build them (and the LM is not an easy thing to begin with). Plus I've heard stories as to how much of a nightmare the old Vista Replicas 1/32 LM was.

But styrene on the other hand opens up the customer base a lot larger as then modelers with basic to intermediate skills can potentially build such a kit.

Cunumdrum61
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posted 03-10-2012 12:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cunumdrum61     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jay is correct. Injection molding is the only way to go and it is the preferred process to keep costs down and make it viable to the average person that walks into a hobby shop and buys one. We are just a very small percentage of the market share and manufacturing companies have to focus on the bottom line, the return on their investment.

I doubt that you will see an interior if this project goes ahead as it is easier to leave it up to the aftermarket resin guys. Doing a complete interior could add as much as 20% to the tooling costs because of the number of small parts.

I would much rather have an accurate LEM as a basis to begin with than one with a complete interior that would be difficult to recreate properly with the limits of injection molding. I am sure the aftermarket guys would produce an interior and perhaps even aluminum turned engine bells and RCS jets.

I have suggested to the manufacturer that they include the Kapton foil in the kit. I would prefer this over an interior as it is the most difficult to achieve convincingly.

Jay Chladek
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posted 03-10-2012 01:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My only concern about including Kapton foil is every LM had variations in the colors of the foil used (Apollo 9 had reddish foil, 10, 11 and 12 were deep orange, after it was a bit lighter with more silver foils used). So one foil shade is not going to do it for all unless multiple shades were stuck in there for options (which drives the production cost up).

I admit that Kapton foil would be nice to have, but you are going to have to choose which specific shade to go with for a specific module or baseline it with a foil that can be used on all of them (i.e. silver and provide instructions for clear tinting it with Tamiya or Gunze shades). Of course, if you were to just focus on the foil shades used for Apollo 11 and leave it at that, it would probably be fine anyway as that will be the module most members of the general public are going to build anyway.

I agree about leaving the interior for the aftermarket as indeed they can do probably a superior job compared to styrene. But it might not be a bad idea if there is a little budget to provide some rudimentary interior (e.g. Atomic City's Mercury) to at least leave it up to modelers to go the rest of the way with scratch-building if they so choose (again, value for money).

Another shortcut that can be considered would be tooling up two standing Apollo astronauts to stick in their standing spots behind the windows as they can act as really good sight line blockers to keep the rest of the interior less visible (so you don't have to do the ascent engine cover, the PLSS backpacks, the walls, etc.).

But I would say, if it were down to doing a first class job on the exterior and leaving the interior for aftermarket, go for it. Unless you stick an internal light source in the LM or split it down the middle, the interior is not going to be seen anyway.

But there is still a "perception" that putting even a rudimentary interior in will increase the value of the kit, regardless of what its price is (and if the price is say over $70 with a mid $60s US sale price per unit, there are going to be people who will gripe rather vocally, many of them general hobbyists if there isn't an interior, unless everything else is first class all the way).

Cunumdrum61
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posted 03-10-2012 03:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cunumdrum61     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The idea floating at present would be to include the various different shades of the foil and patterns for each LEM, everything in one box and you can take your pick. You then would only need to cut it out and apply it.

Extra parts for the extended stay LEMs also to be included but no rover at this time or scientific instruments. Perhaps later as a different kit.

Astronauts are being considered but do you have two of them on the surface or two of them in the LEM? If you go with the surface idea then you are dealing with two different versions of the suit to cover the later missions, hence increase in production costs.

No idea as to what the retail cost would be but I would estimate in the $70 to $80 price range but do not quote me on that as it depends on what the final manufacturing decision would be and what would be included or excluded.

The primary thing is to get an accurate 1:32 scale LEM on the market. You could have it all with complete interior, rover, different astronauts, turned engine bells and RCS nozzles and payload options but then the sticker shock of say $140 to $160 dollars is going to limit it to serious buyers only.

Still, Trumpeter gets away with it with some of their kits and they still need a ton of aftermarket.

For me give me an accurate kit in outline only and I will detail the rest of it myself.

cspg
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posted 03-10-2012 06:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why 1/32? Models usually go by a multiple of 6.

history in miniature
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posted 03-10-2012 06:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for history in miniature   Click Here to Email history in miniature     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a Vista Replicas kit and despite the consensus, it isn't all that bad. It is extremely heavy and the white metal legs will eventually bend after awhile. The resin castings are terrible, but the ascent and descent stages are the correct shapes.

The LM is the most technical build I have done yet with the different coatings and their coloration.

garymilgrom
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posted 03-10-2012 07:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for garymilgrom   Click Here to Email garymilgrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve - what scale is that? And what are the panels sitting on the plastic ascent stage? Thanks.

Cunumdrum61
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posted 03-10-2012 07:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cunumdrum61     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You have done an outstanding job on the Vista Replicas LEM. It's a tough kit to get together and you are right about the castings being rough. I like the panel treatment on the Ascent stage, well done. What foil did you use?

What color mix did you use to get the greenish tint on the Ascent stage? It looks good!

history in miniature
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posted 03-10-2012 09:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for history in miniature   Click Here to Email history in miniature     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oops, so sorry, the build is of the Monogram kit in 48th scale using the New Ware detail sets. The ascent stage on Eagle was in between changing the micro-meteoroid panels from heavy 2024 aluminum to the lighter 5056. A different anodizing process was used for the first time on the 5056 and this is what contributed to Eagle's ascent stage coloration. This is how Paul Fjeld in SIM #7 describes the process.

This model wears real Kapton (thanks Fred) and the rest of the foiling on the descent stage is made up of candy wrappers.

Gary, those white panels on the ascent stage are the micro-meteoroid panels.

Jay Chladek
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posted 03-10-2012 10:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Trumpter tends to get away with a lot. But when I visit my LHS, typically after the first three or four kits of a new type in 1/32 get sold to the guys that pre-order them, the rest stay on the shelf and act as dust catchers.

Okay, based on what you have told me about this LM proposal, I think the price point is a good one with several shades of Kapton included. But if they plan to go that route, doing at least a folded up LRV would not be a bad idea (just the chassis and the four folded wheels), that way somebody could do a J series LM out of the box in flight or just landed.

If it were just an H series LM, I would probably buy just one for now. If it had some J series options in the kit, I would do two or three. So the more options stuck in, the more potential for multiple sales as I see it.

What I do not want to see though is limited initial run kit now, deluxe kit later. Other companies have tried that in the past and Dragon has even shown signs of that (such their Mercury Redstone having no heat shield or retro pack for the capsule). If customers are forced to buy multiples to get what they want, they might go for it initially, but they can get pretty fickle rather quick. Plus, if customers get wind of a better kit coming later, many just wait and the initial product ends up going unsold.

Cunumdrum61
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posted 03-10-2012 02:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cunumdrum61     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From my understanding there would be no initial kit or deluxe kit later or limited production run. One kit only with a very large production run and possible extras such as scientific equipment and LRV that you would be able to buy separately as a separate kit if you wanted them depending on sales of the LEM. Basically one LEM and that's it.

kosmo
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posted 03-10-2012 03:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kosmo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've been holding my breath for the Accurate Models 1/32 scale kit to come out for years, a quality kit of the LM in 1/32 scale!? Count me in!

Tad_N
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From: Dundas, Ontario, Canada
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posted 03-10-2012 05:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tad_N   Click Here to Email Tad_N     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Count me in as well, sounds fantastic!

GACspaceguy
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posted 03-10-2012 05:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by history in miniature:
A different anodizing process was used for the first time on the 5056 and this is what contributed to Eagle's ascent stage coloration.
Steve, for a moment there I was thinking of making you my new metallurgist. But I will echo what others have said Steve; it is a great looking model!

history in miniature
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posted 03-10-2012 06:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for history in miniature   Click Here to Email history in miniature     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I must say this, after I posted pictures of Eagle I felt that some may get the idea of me hijacking this thread, not the case. I simply posted pictures of this build to echo my passion for this vehicle as in my mind it is the coolest piece of hardware man has ever constructed.

Conundrum, the response you have generated here so far isn't even the tip of the iceberg concerning the possible release of an accurate model of a LM in this scale.

Josquin
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posted 03-10-2012 06:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Josquin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Count me in too, Steve will have to built of few of these I guess.

Space Emblem Art
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posted 03-10-2012 09:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Space Emblem Art   Click Here to Email Space Emblem Art     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
1/32 scale LM would be great! I've been hoping for one ever since Monogram released the 1/32 CSM back in the early 70's.

alexbaja
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From: Naxxar, Malta
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posted 03-12-2012 01:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for alexbaja   Click Here to Email alexbaja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cunumdrum61:
I am doing a little unscientific polling on behalf of a manufacturer to get some feedback.

Any idea as when to expect the date of production of this 1:32 LEM.

Can't wait to get my hands on one.


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