Author
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Topic: Action Products' Ultimate Saturn V
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Ed beck Member Posts: 227 From: Florida Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 12-14-2000 12:48 PM
I recently purchased the Ultimate Saturn V based largely on the glowing review it received on this website. Boy was I surprised. Surprised at how cheap it looked despite Buzz Aldrin, and this website endorsing it. Let me be very specific. The first two stages do look pretty good, but the engines are a soft rubbery plastic. The interstage between the first and second stage only separates from the 1st stage. It remains attached to the second stage. And it seems to take the last quarter inch of the 1st stage with it. It does not break apart where it should, which I thought was very strange. The Apollo command module is a complete joke. It looks nothing like the real thing. The opening to reveal the astronauts is totally bogus. It could have either been left out, or done better. It was stated that a child could perform the staging. Only if he was Bam-Bam Rubble. I took the rocket in hand to perform the staging on my first lift off, and proceeded to tug the two stages apart. I tugged gently at first expecting a smooth separation. It did not come apart. I gave it a harder tug, still nothing. I finally gave it my best tug, and it did come apart, but it sent the command module, service module, the launch escape tower, and one panel of the third stage adapter flying across the room. Had this been a real launch it would have been a total loss of all hands aboard. You don't want that. I tried this procedure several times with the same results. This was very disappointing, as I wanted a model that had a toys toughness, and a models details. But, this toy is too tough to work as the demonstration model that I wanted. The details on the CSM, and LM was sorely lacking in comparison to the 1:44 scale model. I also believe that it was about $20 over priced. If they could improve the details on the command module, that alone would help. In order to get the launch escape tower to fit on top properly the CM is reduced in size. It looks stunted, or just plain too small to be on top of the service module. I sent my Ultimate Saturn V back to the space store at Kennedy Space Center. They agreed to take it back. This is a wonderful idea, I love the concept. But, in its present form the Ultimate Saturn V is the So So Saturn V. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-14-2000 03:31 PM
I'm sorry you found so much displeasure with the Saturn V. I obviously had a different experience. I guess I was willing to accept (what I thought were) minor inaccuracies to accommodate for its higher-degree of playability. I also thought fully stacked, the toy passed easily for the much more expensive, harder-to-build model from only an arm length's away. I'm glad to hear though, you were able to return the rocket with little trouble. |
Ed beck Member Posts: 227 From: Florida Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 12-15-2000 09:58 AM
I am sorry that my first post had to be a critical one. But, the issues I pointed out, the problem with the staging I believe to be important to pass along as a potential defect in the design of the product. With these improvements, and a few detail improvements, i.e. the CM, and LM, this would be a truly awesome product. I think they are on the right track, and I hope that product feedback like this will help with that process. |
astronut Member Posts: 969 From: South Fork, CO Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 12-15-2000 02:26 PM
I bet a few of the "deficiencies" can be attributed to the fact that this is a "toy" not a "model" and had to be built within the Child Safety guidelines. If it had been marketed as a model for "display only" it might have adhered to a more realistic construction.Though well intended, safety regulators have interfered with or outright banned many useful products. But the parents of children alive who might have been killed or injured otherwise are thankful, myself included. |
Ed beck Member Posts: 227 From: Florida Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 12-15-2000 11:54 PM
I realized that this is a toy, and was willing to over look several things. It was stated however that while it is a toy, that it was easy to mistake it for the model, which is what attracted me to purchase it. I respect Robert Pearlman's opinion on space collectibles. I still do. I just think that he over stated the model quality of this particular item. One item that I did fail to mention is that the letters USA are missing entirely from the third stage. This could harm no child, as the letters are correctly shown on the first stage. I really don't want to nitpick this to death, but now that I think of it that is a pretty big detail oversight. But my main concern remains with the toys stage separation. In my opinion it is too difficult for a child to do. The details on the CM and LM are a matter that we can agree to disagree on. I do think that this is a good first try. With some improvements on the stage separation, I think this would be the Ultimate Saturn V. I just don't think that it is there yet. |
jediallan New Member Posts: From: Registered:
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posted 12-17-2000 09:57 PM
Ed Beck is completely accurate in his description of the problems with the Saturn V by Action Products. I bought it for my 7-year old who upon opening it said, "I'm in heaven." But he could not get the first and second stages apart without my help and when enough force is exerted to do so, everything else (the upper stages, LEM, etc.) falls apart so you spend all your time trying to keep it all holding together. Don't they ever test these things with real kids... or adults for that matter. It is a fine looking toy and we have relegated it to a spot on the dresser where it looks quite nice but doesn't live up to its potential as a toy to actively play with. Still, it has inspired my son's interest in rockets. |
tegwilym Member Posts: 2331 From: Sturgeon Bay, WI Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 12-18-2000 03:05 PM
I saw one in the store and was checking it out. Since it was a display model I figured the stages were glued together so it wouldn't fall apart from people playing around with it. I now see that it was most likely just stuck together correctly - and very tight! |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-18-2000 03:44 PM
I thought it was a good idea to have the stages require some force to separate otherwise I think there would be complaints of the rocket falling apart too easily. I have found though, that with use the stages do come apart more easily. |
AlphaSigOU New Member Posts: From: Registered:
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posted 12-23-2001 12:39 AM
quote: Originally posted by Ed beck: One item that I did fail to mention is that the letters USA are missing entirely from the third stage...
The 'USA' lettering on the Saturn V's S-IVB stage only appeared on the engineering test vehicle SA-500F which never flew. Any inflight pictures of the S-IVB stage in orbit are those from Apollo 7, which used a S-IVB for a Saturn IB - those did have the 'USA' marking on the stage.Hope this helps. |
Jacqueline Member Posts: 344 From: UK Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 12-23-2001 06:43 AM
I have the Airfix 30th Anniversary edition of the Saturn Rocket and all its stages come apart just like the real thing, as does the LEM extract from the cone and can attach itself to the command/service module. Even the launch escape tower comes off. The command module even separates from the service module for splash down. It's a great model - and only cost me £25.00! |
tegwilym Member Posts: 2331 From: Sturgeon Bay, WI Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 12-23-2001 02:56 PM
Here is my Saturn V. I think mine is a little bigger! |
Larry McGlynn Member Posts: 1255 From: Boston, MA Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 12-26-2001 08:50 PM
My nephew received the Ultimate Saturn V toy for Christmas this year. I really appreciated the comments made on this thread as they helped me show my nephew how the toy rocket worked. The rest of the family thought I was nuts by the way I guided him though the whole mission sequence, but who cares. It was fun to watch him fly the model around the room.I do have some comments concerning the toy. In all respect to Ed and his review, I found this to be a pretty good toy for a child. Yes, the 1st stage was extremely tough to pull apart, but the detail was good for a toy that will get played with (very hard). It provides a strong child proof way to simulate the entire moon landing mission. But I realized it is a toy and not a static display model. A museum quality display model would not stand up to a child's play. So the two types will never merge into a good display model that a child can play with. You can get a very beautiful display model by one of three methods. First, you can build one from scratch like Tracy Kornfeld did. Second, you can buy a Monogram kit at a local hobby store and build it. The third method is to contact Nick Proach about buying a 1/144 scale Saturn V model. The first two solutions are for model builders with some talent. The third solution just requires some cash. All in all the Ultimate Saturn V was a nice Christmas present for a ten year old kid with a love for things that fly. My mother in law did pretty well and that's not bad for a mother in law. |
Ed beck Member Posts: 227 From: Florida Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 12-26-2001 11:14 PM
Larry, I am thrilled that your nephew was captivated by the Ultimate Saturn V. In spite of detail draw backs it is a wonderful concept. I do stand by my observation about the staging problem on the first and second stages, and the poor detail on the LM, and CSM. You said yourself that it was tough to pull apart. I realize it is not a display model, nor is it intended to be. I am not sure how to improve the staging design. I personally found it to be unacceptable. But, if it has inspired your nephew to look into rockets, and to want learn more about our moon landing program; then, hats off to the Ultimate Saturn V! |
Larry McGlynn Member Posts: 1255 From: Boston, MA Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 12-27-2001 07:47 AM
I have been thinking about how to solve the staging problem. They might try to redesign the model, so that you can twist the sections apart using a pin and grove system. Plus keep the interstage on the 1st stage instead of covering the engines on the second stage. I doubt they will change now, it's a thought. |
Ed beck Member Posts: 227 From: Florida Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 12-27-2001 11:53 PM
I doubt that they will change the design at this "stage". (Pun intended). It would likely be cost prohibitive. I do have an idea, I have the old 1:44 scale model version. The stages have two flimsy hooks that latch onto pegs in the underside of the next stage. The whole stack connects this way. It works great when it is new, and all of the hook are there. But, after multiple missions, the little hooks break off, and the rocket stack becomes very unstable. My suggestion, would be to put these same type of hooks on the Ultimate Saturn V. Instead of the flimsy hooks, make them stronger, thicker, and at least double them up. Have at least four connector hooks per stage instead of two. Even if one or two should break off, it should still be pretty stable. They are well made, and tough, but, I wouldn't go play football with it. As well made as it is, the Ultimate Saturn V could become a pile of ruble, in the hands of Bam Bam Rubble. That is about the best solution that I can think of. Unless, you threaded the snap together points so that it would screw together instead of snap. That might be a viable alternative as well. There has to be a better way, than what they have now. |
Larry McGlynn Member Posts: 1255 From: Boston, MA Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 01-01-2002 10:24 AM
Can you tell me the cost of the model?I also agree with your ideas on attaching the stages together. The screw idea is a very good one. I wish I thought of it. |
Ed beck Member Posts: 227 From: Florida Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 01-01-2002 05:07 PM
Thanks for the feedback on my stage attachment idea. However, both Saturn V models that I have were gifts that I received over 20 years ago. So I have no idea what they went for then, or now. I think they are still available on line at Toys R Us. You could check there. Sorry I could not help more. |
Larry McGlynn Member Posts: 1255 From: Boston, MA Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 01-04-2002 03:42 AM
I am sorry. I meant what was the cost of the Ultimate Saturn V toy rocket? |
tegwilym Member Posts: 2331 From: Sturgeon Bay, WI Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 01-04-2002 04:08 AM
Here is one for $44.95.I'm sure you can look around and find a good price somewhere, but this is pretty typical for the price on that. I don't have one myself yet! |
MichaelD Member Posts: 90 From: Troy Michigan USA Registered: May 2009
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posted 06-12-2009 11:05 PM
Would like to know the opinion of some of those who have this Saturn V. Is it just a toy or a fairly accurate model?Editor's note: Threads merged.
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Jay Chladek Member Posts: 2272 From: Bellevue, NE, USA Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 06-14-2009 04:54 AM
I've had one of these for a few years (acquired it in 2002). I don't have a kid in my household, just myself (the big kid). I mainly got it as a placeholder until one day when I can get some Saturn models built. As such, given that I am a modeler I tend to have a little bit higher standards then some people concerning what I want from a replica before I buy one, even a toy. But even then, I do understand I am getting a toy as opposed to a model. My specific Saturn V is one of the original issue black boxed toys with Buzz Aldrin's mug on it. Today's version comes in a blue box and I don't know if any changes have been made to the toy itself over the years it has been out (I doubt it).To me, the Action Products Saturn V is a nice compromise between a toy and a display model IMHO. As mentioned by others, the rocket stages stick together very well and are tough to pop apart the first few times. But, it is easier to get apart after a few mission "simulations". Detail wise, it has some very good features for a toy externally. I had heard that supposedly Action used one (perhaps both) of the 1/144 Saturn model kits for inspiration, but it doesn't look like a direct copy of either kit based on my own research (maybe a little closer to Airfix detail then Monogram's). There do seem to be a couple minor lumps and bumps missing in spots and one inaccuracy carried up from Apollo 4 and 6 (8 ullage motors on the interstage instead of 4 on the manned missions), but one really has to be a bigtime Saturn V buff to spot them. Indeed in a couple cases, the toy is better in detailing. For instance, both the 1/144 kits suffer from the Apollo CSM being too skinny (Airfix's upcoming reissue is correcting that with new tool parts and Realspace Models has a resin conversion). On this replica, the CSM seems to be the right size and it also has block 2 details. It is still a toy though as the CM is undersized to the SM so that the vinyl BPC fits on it and looks proper without being oversized. The LM is of course one of the compromises between toy and model, but at least the legs will survive repeated foldings without a problem. Vinyl is used for the F-1 engines and the BPC (can't put your eye out with the LES). On mine, the LES rocket tower is a little crooked, but it can be flexed back. The vinyl rocket motors also mean they won't break off easily. Paintjob of this looks decent at a glance. It looks like a flying Saturn V and not Saturn 500-F. I haven't gone over the entire roll pattern to see if it lines up properly, but it does seem to be proper at a glance. The only thing that stands out to me is the roll pattern on the transition between the S-IVB and the S-II is wrong on one side as it is just a duplication of the other (black top, black bottom, black top, black bottom when it should be black top, black bottom, all white, all black). In my case, it doesn't bother me as I respect what it is. So, if you are wanting to get one of these as a display piece, it looks good on a budget. In my case I think it looks better then some of the wood models I've seen (and even some built plastic models). It costs a lot less then a wood model. Take it off the slightly cheesy stand and stick it on a slick display base and it can look the part nicely. Under close scrutiny, its toy characteristics become apparent but they aren't glaring. From a few feet away and sitting on a shelf, it looks like a Saturn V to me. If you want it as a toy, it is good for that too. It will survive many missions and seems to hold up well. Younger hands might have a hard time getting the first two stages apart (a slight bending action seems to help on mine rather then directly pulling them apart), but repeated stagings will help. The stages fit together well and are keyed so that they will stack properly one way only. Hope this helps. |