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Author
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Topic: Apollo suit serial numbers in sequence
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 05-29-2020 07:28 AM
  
ILC had a 1974 list of the A7L-IV and A7L-EV delivery dates.A7L-IV suits: - 005 ... 6-8-68
- 008 ... 6-28-68
- 011 ... 7-3-68
- 017 ... 8-7-68
- 019 ... 8-5-68
- 025 ... 5-27-68
- 026 ... 7-15-68
- 028 ... 7-15-68
- 030 ... 9-24-68
- 033 ... 2-24-69
- 034 ... 5-13-69
- 037 ... 9-5-68
- 043 ... 11-19-68
- 048 ... 12-13-68
- 052 ... 11-19-68
- 055 ... 3-17-70
- 058 ... 7-8-69
- 059 ... 10-8-69
- 066 ... 2-24-69
- 069 ... 5-14-69
- 081 ... 5-22-69
- 082 ... 8-25-69
- 085 ... 7-17-69
- 088 ... 8-18-69
- 092 ... 3-20-70
- 094 ... 6-19-70
- 096 ... 7-7-70
A7L-EV suits: - 001 ... 12-4-67
- 002 ... 1-23-68
- 003 ... 4-16-68
- 004 ... 6-7-68
- 006 ... 6-7-68
- 007 ... 6-28-68
- 009 ... 6-28-68
- 010 ... 7-3-68
- 012 ... 6-26-68
- 013 ... 7-26-68
- 014 ... 10-21-68
- 015 ... 7-30-68
- 016 ... 7-26-68
- 018 ... 7-20-68
- 020 ... 8-5-68
- 021 ... 8-2-68
- 022 ... 9-11-68
- 023 ... 5-19-68
- 024 ... 5-25-68
- 027 ... 5-29-68
- 029 ... 8-23-68
- 031 ... 9-21-68
- 032 ... 8-30-68
- 035 ... 9-13-68
- 036 ... 9-13-68
- 038 ... 8-15-68
- 039 ... 1-10-69
- 040 ... 10-22-68
- 041 ... 10-21-68
- 042 ... 10-26-68
- 044 ... 11-10-68
- 045 ... 12-13-68
- 046 ... 1-10-69
- 047 ... 2-5-69
- 049 ... 1-3-69
- 050 ... 1-24-69
- 051 ... 11-7-68
- 053 ... 3-27-69
- 054 ... 2-19-69
- 056 ... 2-11-69
- 057 ... 3-11-69
- 060 ... 1-24-69
- 061 ... 3-18-69
- 062 ... 10-6-69
- 063 ... 3-19-69
- 064 ... 8-25-69
- 065 ... 4-1-69
- 067 ... 3-28-69
- 068 ... 5-10-69
- 070 ... 4-29-69
- 071 ... 11-4-69
- 072 ... 11-10-69
- 073 ... 6-25-69
- 074 ... 3-9-69
- 075 ... 6-5-69
- 076 ... 3-9-69
- 077 ... 4-25-69
- 078 ... 8-21-69
- 079 ... 12-10-69
- 080 ... 5-29-69
- 083 ... 2-12-70
- 084 ... 7-29-69
- 085 ... 8-19-69
- 087 ... 9-17-69
- 089 ... 3-6-70
- 090 ... 2-13-70
- 093 ... 7-23-71
- 095 ... 5-30-72
I spotted a few mistakes in the above numbers: - suit 085 is on both lists
- suit 086 is missing
- suit 091 is missing
I figure 085 and 091 were IV suits, and 086 was an EV suit. |
Rolf
Member Posts: 79
From: Netherlands
Registered: May 2007
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posted 05-31-2020 06:28 AM
Suit 085 only IV (Roosa). Suit 086 EV (Young BU Apollo 13). Suit 091 IV (Roosa Apollo 14). quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
Maybe Cernan's was 049.
How about: Cernan 049 or 044? |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 05-31-2020 08:02 AM
If it was his flown 044 suit, then the "Cernan" name tag has been replaced with an "E. Cernan" name tag.
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Rolf
Member Posts: 79
From: Netherlands
Registered: May 2007
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posted 05-31-2020 08:56 AM
Yes, you are right. I will add to the spreadsheet: 049? training suit Cernan Apollo 14 BU CDR. |
Kevmac
Member Posts: 313
From: College Station, TX
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 06-01-2020 12:05 AM
Would any of this explain why Cernan wore a suit with the Apollo 10 patch for his individual picture for Apollo 17, or was that photo a rerun of his Apollo 10 picture? I don't believe I've heard the explanation of that. |
Mike Dixon
Member Posts: 1625
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003
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posted 06-01-2020 02:49 AM
One suit was the A7LB, the other the A7L. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-01-2020 06:53 AM
In that A7LB portrait photo of Cernan, it looks like both the name tag and patch are just velcroed on. They are not sewn on. |
Rolf
Member Posts: 79
From: Netherlands
Registered: May 2007
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posted 06-01-2020 09:56 AM
New portraits were made in 1971 (most of these in February and March) of the following astronauts: Allen, Bobko, Brand, Carr, Cernan, Chapman, Crippen, Duke, England, Engle, Evans, Fullerton, Garriott, Gibson, Hartsfield, Henize, Holmquest, Irwin, Kerwin, Lenoir, Lind, Lousma, Mattingly, McCandless, McDivitt, Musgrave, Overmyer, Parker, Peterson, Poque, Schmitt, Schweickart, Scott, Swigert, Thornton, Truly, Weitz, Worden, Young. This list courtesy of Ed Hengeveld.Only Scott and Worden posed in their own suits and probably Mattingly and Schmitt. The other astronauts wore an A7LB suit (almost certainly the same one) using a velcroed name tag. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-01-2020 01:26 PM
Tom Stafford in photo S72-35016 looks like he is wearing one of his Apollo 10 suits with the name tag sewn on. The mission patch is obviously added on. |
Rolf
Member Posts: 79
From: Netherlands
Registered: May 2007
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posted 06-01-2020 03:17 PM
Yes it seems logical because of the name tag sewn on. In the run-up to the assignment as CDR for ASTP on January 30, 1973, this portrait of Stafford was made in 1972. It is known that his real flight suit for Apollo 10 included a beta cloth patch. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-01-2020 09:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Rolf:
New portraits were made in 1971
Those on that list who actually wore an A7LB suit in space: Brand, Carr, Cernan, Duke, Evans, Garriott, Gibson, Irwin, Kerwin, Lousma, Mattingly, Pogue, Schmitt, Scott, Weitz, Worden and Young. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-02-2020 02:02 AM
Odd but true: Jack Swigert has been photographed wearing an A7L-EV suit and an A7LB-EV suit.
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Rolf
Member Posts: 79
From: Netherlands
Registered: May 2007
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posted 06-02-2020 04:20 AM
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
Those on that list who actually wore an A7LB suit in space...
Brand and Evans in a different type of A7LB suit than in the 1971 portraits. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-02-2020 09:48 AM
There are 1971 portrait photos of Conrad and Bean, but they are wearing business suits. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-02-2020 08:03 PM
The majority of A7LB suits that I have seen for ASTP have had a NASA meatball patch. Those include the suits worn by the prime and backup crews for some altitude chamber tests, and the suits worn by the prime crew for their crew photo. I have only seen the worm logo on the prime crew's flown suits. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-03-2020 07:32 AM
Lousma's Skylab 3 flight suit 635 was reused as Carr's Skylab 4 backup suit. If you look closely at the Skylab 4 crew photo, it looks like a smaller "G. Carr" name tag might be covering something underneath on the larger name tag: the "Lousma" name, perhaps? So that could be Lousma's flown suit in the photo. |
Rolf
Member Posts: 79
From: Netherlands
Registered: May 2007
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posted 06-03-2020 12:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
There are 1971 portrait photos of Conrad and Bean, but they are wearing business suits.
New portraits were made in 1971 (most of these in January) of the following astronauts wearing business suits: Allen, Bean, Bobko, Brand, Carr, Cernan, Chapman, Conrad, Crippen, Duke, England, Engle, Evans, Fullerton, Garriott, Gibson, Gordon, Haise, Hartsfield, Henize, Holmquest, Irwin, Kerwin, Lenoir, Lind, Lousma, McDivitt, Musgrave, Overmyer, Parker, Peterson, Schweickart, Scott, Shepard, Slayton, Thornton, Truly, Young.In addition, alternative portraits were made in 1971 of: Carr (USMC uniform), Shepard (USN uniform), Slayton (light blue flight suit and red helmet). This list courtesy of Ed Hengeveld. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-03-2020 09:57 PM
Odd that Lind's Skylab backup crew training suit (613) would have been his Skylab Rescue flight suit, since he also had a Skylab backup crew primary suit (625).
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-06-2020 02:22 AM
There seems to be an error in the beta cloth NASA meatball patches on the A7L suits.In the official NASA meatball insignia, the white path of the orbiting spacecraft passes in front of the red chevron on the right, and behind the red chevron on the left. In the meatball on the A7L suits, the white path on the left passes in front of the red chevron just to the left of the first "A" in "NASA" in the insignia. This can be seen in several suited photos, including these: The error can also be seen in the NASA meatball patches on the A7LB suits, and the inflight coverall garments. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-07-2020 02:28 AM
The beta cloth meatball patch error can clearly be seen in this NASM photo of the inflight coverall garment jacket worn by Neil Armstrong on Apollo 11. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 51815
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 06-07-2020 07:54 AM
The "error" wasn't unique to the Beta cloth patches. The embroidered patches worn during the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo programs varied in design from having the orbit pass completely in front of the vector, to partially passing behind. The layout and number of stars also varied between runs. In fact, at what is believed to be the first public appearance of the insignia, at the 1959 press conference announcing the Mercury astronauts, the orbit was shown passing behind the lower stroke of the vector on the right. It was not until later, possibly not until its reintroduction in 1992, that a concerted effort was made to standardize the insignia's appearance. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-07-2020 10:31 AM
The ILC contract included 18 A7LB suits for the Apollo 18 and Apollo 19 missions. Those suits were deleted when the two missions were cancelled. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-08-2020 12:31 PM
A7L and A7LB suits assigned to more than one mission: - 011 - Apollo 7 and Apollo 10
- 015 - Apollo 9 (flown) and Apollo 14
- 021 - Apollo 9 and Apollo 13
- 035 - Apollo 8 and Apollo 11
- 036 - Apollo 8 and Apollo 11
- 046 - Apollo 10 and Apollo 14
- 055 - Apollo 8 and Apollo 15
- 059 - Apollo 12, Apollo 13 and Apollo 16
- 060 - Apollo 11 and Apollo 13
- 064 - Apollo 14 and Apollo 17
- 074 - Apollo 11 and Apollo 13
- 076 - Apollo 11 and Apollo 15
- 081 - Apollo 12 and Apollo 15
- 085 - Apollo 14 (flown), Apollo 16 and Apollo 17
- 303 - Apollo 16 and Apollo 17
- 304 - Apollo 16 and Apollo 17
- 315 - Apollo 15 (flown) and Apollo 17
- 318 - Apollo 15 and Apollo 17
- 323 - Apollo 16 and Apollo 17
- 326 - Apollo 16 and Apollo 17
- 401 - Apollo 16 and Apollo 17
- 611 - Skylab 4 and Skylab Rescue
- 612 - Skylab 3 and Skylab 4
- 613 - Skylab 3, Skylab 4 and Skylab Rescue
- 624 - Skylab 3 and Skylab 4
- 625 - Skylab 3 and Skylab 4
- 635 - Skylab 3 (flown) and Skylab 4
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-08-2020 09:49 PM
Interestingly, the NASM has this A7L pressure suit (with six connectors) sized for Jack Swigert.
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-09-2020 03:36 AM
The Apollo astronauts were given code names for their spacesuits. The code names were stars. See Fact 1 here, which mentions Armstrong's code name.
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Rolf
Member Posts: 79
From: Netherlands
Registered: May 2007
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posted 06-09-2020 05:23 AM
Remarkable! I never knew this. quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
A7L and A7LB suits assigned to more than one mission
Thank you. My spreadsheet was missing a color for using suit 021 twice. I corrected this.Your list of 06-08-2020 is missing: - 036 - Apollo 8, Apollo 11 AND SKYLAB 4.
- 051 - Apollo 8, Apollo 11(?) and Apollo 13(?), suit of Haise.
- 082 - Apollo 13 and Apollo 16, suit of Mattingly.
The Apollo, Skylab and ASTP Suit Serial Numbers spreadsheet has been updated. quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
...this A7L pressure suit (with six connectors) sized for Jack Swigert.
This is comparable to the museum photo of Roosa's suit. See your post of 05-22-2020 and beyond. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-09-2020 12:37 PM
Apparently, there is a NASA memo dated May 10, 1968 about the code names. I have not seen that memo. Maybe it has a list of all the code names. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-09-2020 09:32 PM
I found a lot of the code names in this NASM document on pages 32 to 38. It also shows A7L suit serial numbers in the left column.A lot of the missing suit numbers in the first post can be filled in: - 001 - Young
- 002 - Young
- 003 - Young
- 022 - Haise
- 023 - Engle
- 024 - Borman
- 025 - Anders
- 027 - Armstrong
- 028 - Lovell
- 038 - Lind
- 039 - Mays
- 040 - Cooper
- 041 - Mitchell
- 050 - Mays
- 053 - Borman
- 069 - Gordon
- 075 - Lovell
- 079 - Anders
- 083 - Schmitt
- 089 - Stafford
- 093
- 095
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-11-2020 09:55 AM
Some differences between the spreadsheet and the NASM document: - suit 042: spreadsheet has Stafford; NASM has Stafford and Young
- suit 058: spreadsheet has Worden; NASM has Aldrin
- suit 062: spreadsheet has Duke; NASM has McDivitt
- suit 064: spreadsheet has Engle and Evans; NASM has Schweickart
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Rolf
Member Posts: 79
From: Netherlands
Registered: May 2007
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posted 06-11-2020 03:01 PM
How about contacting us by e-mail first? We can try to figure out the differences. Then we decide together whether and where the spreadsheet should be adjusted or not. The end result will then be published in this forum. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-11-2020 04:36 PM
Okay, Rolf. e-mail sent. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-16-2020 01:46 AM
Scott, Worden and Irwin were also the original backup crew for Apollo 17. That crew announcement was made on August 13, 1971.They were to be replaced by Young, Roosa and Duke, effective July 1, 1972. That crew announcement was made on May 23, 1972. |
Rolf
Member Posts: 79
From: Netherlands
Registered: May 2007
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posted 06-16-2020 05:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
Scott, Worden and Irwin were also the original backup crew for Apollo 17.
It is difficult to adjust the spreadsheet for this. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-16-2020 08:52 AM
But it is interesting that Cernan wore Scott's flown 315 suit during training, and Scott was on the backup crew (for a while, at least).Maybe Cernan could not train wearing Scott's Apollo 15 backup or training suits because Scott needed them.
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Rolf
Member Posts: 79
From: Netherlands
Registered: May 2007
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posted 06-17-2020 11:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Rolf:
The end result will then be published in this forum.
Nice that it was possible after our consultation by email to add a number of training suits to the spreadsheet.The latest version is now online. |
Explorer1
Member Posts: 238
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2019
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posted 06-20-2020 04:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
I think there was an EVA planned for the Borman crew...
Do you recall where you heard that the E Mission flight would have had an EVA? |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-20-2020 11:26 PM
The prime crew for the third manned Apollo E-mission was Borman, Collins and Anders. The backup crew was Armstrong, Lovell and Aldrin.The following seems to indicate that there might have been an EVA planned for the E-mission: - The crew training summary has 15 hours planned for EVA/IVA training for the E-mission crews.
- On April 16, 1968 there was a PLSS briefing
- On August 5, 1968 there was an EVA PLSS doff/don exercise with Borman, Anders and Armstrong.
- On August 6, 1968 there was another EVA PLSS exercise with Borman, Armstrong and Anders.
- The E-mission training seems to have ended on August 17, 1968.
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Explorer1
Member Posts: 238
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2019
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posted 06-21-2020 07:52 AM
Really good job by everybody here to assemble this so quickly. These kind of cool things happen on cS. But it occurs to me that this could have been done years ago. LM-12, can I ask what inspired you to put Bill Ayrey's list in chronological order and post it here? |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3882
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-21-2020 06:21 PM
It was the easiest way to figure out which numbers were missing.We seem to be running out of low A7L serial numbers for the Apollo 7 and Apollo 9 crew training suits. Maybe they used the A6L version as their training suits. |
Rolf
Member Posts: 79
From: Netherlands
Registered: May 2007
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posted 06-22-2020 05:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
Maybe they used the A6L version as their training suits.
That seems very likely indeed.
We know photos from 1968 of tests at NAA in Downey where A6L suits were worn. That concerned the following crews: Schirra, Eisele, Cunningham / Stafford, Young, Cernan / Borman, Collins, Anders.The same was probably true with tests in May and June 1968: LTA-8 (Jim Irwin, Gerry Gibbons from Grumman) and 2TV1 (Joe Kerwin, Vance Brand, Joe Engle). |
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