posted 07-26-2019 09:50 AM               

Hope that you can help me with finding out more.

posted 07-26-2019 02:59 PM               

These acrylics in those days never came with any documentation as they were given away as freebees and no one would dare to ask for provenance in those days — especially if they were done officially.

posted 07-27-2019 04:42 AM               

After shredding thousands of dollars worth of fake German autographs (from my early collection) and seeing dozens of Lucite displays with no or questionable provenance. Flown items and components that where never flown, components listed from the space program that are from really aircraft parts and it never seems to end. If there is a dollar to be made someone will fake it and this started in the 1960s. Just because something is old does not guarantee that it is real.

Since I started the auctions at the American Space Museum, I have sent three people to the state's attorney for forgery, trashed dozens of fake items (with the permission of the consignor) and sent several documented fakes back to the owners to be resold to a sucker somewhere because legally I could do nothing else.

I am so jaded that I will not purchase anything that is not sold with solid and proven documentation. I have thrown so much money in the trash with this hobby that I consider all items fake until proven real.

posted 07-27-2019 08:51 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chuckster01:
I am so jaded that I will not purchase anything that is not sold with solid and proven documentation.

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posted 07-27-2019 11:19 AM               

Below is label for the Apollo 7.

Apollo 9. Appears to be from same range and series as the Apollo 11.

posted 07-27-2019 06:05 PM               

Your lucite is a great old piece but who made it, what it contains and the history of the pieces inside are all speculative and I hate to say it but the same would apply to the Apollo 9 lucite. It's a great display but the plugs inside could have been production spares.

And for the record, lucites of the period did sometimes document all of the provenance when manufactured. For example, this Apollo 8 lucite from North American Rockwell (sorry for the poor photography).

posted 07-28-2019 02:46 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Chuckster01:
For the record I never said your lucite was fake. I said without some provenance it is hard to prove one way or another.

Your lucite is a great old piece but who made it, what it contains and the history of the pieces inside are all speculative and I hate to say it but the same would apply to the Apollo 9 lucite. It's a great display but the plugs inside could have been production spares.

And for the record, lucites of the period did sometimes document all of the provenance when manufactured. For example, this Apollo 8 lucite from North American Rockwell (sorry for the poor photography).

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posted 07-28-2019 07:12 AM               

Lead/Chief mean the same, only seen the word ”Chief,” not “Lead” re. Larson title.

posted 07-28-2019 11:27 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by fredtrav:
It would not have been worth much...

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posted 07-28-2019 05:50 PM               

The heat shield was manufactured by first bonding the fiberglass honeycomb to a stainless steel honeycomb substructure with HT-424 adhesive tape. The bond line was inspected to ensure that a good bond had been achieved, and the assembly was then cured. After curing, each of the 370,000 honeycomb cells was manually filled with Avcoat ablator using a device similar to a high pressure caulking gun. The filled honeycomb was furnace cured, after which it was finish-machined on a numerically controlled lathe. The heat shield was X-ray inspected to find any voids which were subsequently drilled out and refilled with Avcoat ablator material.

posted 07-28-2019 08:44 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by denali414:
Plugs had to be tested before ever used, so of course there are unflown plugs and shield material that is "burned," but never flown.

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posted 09-12-2019 12:14 PM               

In my opinion, the Apollo 11 CM display with the two pieces embedded is absolutely authentic and if you know what you're looking at, there are telltale signs of originality. These full CM resins were not easy to make, the creator took a lot of time and careful prep to make them and their imperfections are a strong indicator of originality.

The Apollo 8 display is beautiful, the half CM resin displays are well known as having been produced by NAA and their provenance is iron clad. The hockey puck lucites produced by NASA lend themselves to being faked because the same manufacturing process and materials are used today. But like Scott said, if you know how the ablator material charred, it's difficult to fake because of the heat and time required to forge the burn depth and pattern.

After buying a large collection of custom resin pieces from a NAA spacecraft inspector, he explained that the dome resin displays were created using RTV as a mold and the process required to create them. Remember, in the olden days these weren't worth anything like they are today. These resins had air bubbles, imperfections, crooked placement and were not done by professionals. These were primarily done for workers, management, NASA folks and VIPs who supported the program.

I have some resin displays with up to eight individually poured layers. Some resins have pieces of company stationary cut into small strips with a typed description and embedded with the artifact. I have a full bottom plug embedded in a complete round CM shape with a small piece of paper that has the mission. Some just have the S/C number on the paper, while others used a decal, sticker or patch to designate the mission. Some had a glitter background, others had a black resin layer background and sometimes it was up to the materials on hand that determined how the batch of resins came out.

I purchased a vintage resin with 10 small parts removed from the Apollo 11 spacecraft. I did my research and was able to prove the authenticity of the piece. Another two pieces I purchased from eBay had no provenance, everyone passed on them, but the way they were produced screamed originality. I was able to contact the widow of an RCA radio tech, who confirmed that Ron Evans was a frequent dinner guest and friend of her hubby. The RCA tech embedded an Apollo 17 flown cereal cube given to him by Ron, in resin using a Gerber baby food jar as a mold. Then I was able to obtain a letter from an oil company exec who was given two displays by the man who designed the A7LB helmet.

posted 09-12-2019 06:27 PM               

For those wanting more, even though I have spent many years working on this website, I've certainly only just begun to scratch the surface with these items.

The site's focus has been those heatshield presentations originating from NASA astronauts, flight directors, and support personnel along with managers and engineers from the various contractors (i.e. the recipients of presentations). These acrylics have been sold at auction houses in the last few decades from the original owners or their estates. In general what I have tried to show are those produced with a uniform style and with a specific presentation purpose in mind. Many were manufactured by a third-party under contract to produce and deliver these back to NASA or the contractor.

I am currently working on another section with the myriad of other styles made by individuals on their own accord within NASA and the sub-contractors. As you can imagine, this process is taking longer owing to the fact that these styles tend to be less consistent from mission to mission and from program to program.

Unfortunately many of these are sold with less provenance and as Ray stated, it takes a keen understanding of how they were produced and the associated context clues to make a judgement on any given item's history. An unfortunate but understandable product of their creation, little thought was given beyond making a souvenir in the movement, which has made our jobs harder as collectors.

posted 09-13-2019 04:51 PM               

There are so many different styles that are rare or unseen displays, created by guys who worked on the various programs. For instance I have 55 or 60 vintage resins and acrylics with flown Gemini heatshield, bolts, washers and miscellaneous items embedded, that were done in nine different styles. About half are from GT-8 because the spacecraft was extensively disassembled trying to find the cause of the faulty RCS.

An electrical engineer who installed the wiring on GT-8, told me how the entire heatshid and one third of the exterior panels were removed when the spacecraft came back to St. Louis. He told me there was a large pile of heatshield material in the corner for everyone to take a piece. Many segments are 4" round, that were cut with a power tool and hole cutter. He said they were begging people to take the heatshield pieces because they didn't want to throw it in the garbage. Shaking my head, imagine if anyone on this board could go back in time.

I purchased all of my Gemini pieces from gentlemen and ladies or their families who worked at McDonnell during the program. On the other hand I've purchased more than a few of the Apollo CM shaped resins with flown material at swapmeets, estate sales and from various family members who worked on the Apollo and Shuttle programs at NAA.