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Author Topic:   Lunar Landing Research Vehicle artifacts
holcombeyates
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Posts: 181
From: UK
Registered: Dec 2010

posted 01-05-2018 06:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for holcombeyates   Click Here to Email holcombeyates     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can anyone please point me in the direction of any of the following please...
  • A copy of the incident investigation report into Armstrong's crash in the Lunar Landing Research Vehicle (LLRV).

  • Location of any equipment or components from his crashed LLRV.
Any ideas where his ejector seat is stored or even better displayed? Thanks again!

YankeeClipper
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Posts: 533
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Mar 2011

posted 01-09-2018 08:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for YankeeClipper   Click Here to Email YankeeClipper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
  • NASA SP-2004-4535: The Lunar Landing Research Vehicle may offer some clues. Pages 142-145 cover the crash of LLRV No. 1.

  • According to a NASA fact sheet, LLRV No. 2 was returned to Dryden Flight Research Center, now NASA Neil A. Armstrong Flight Research Center (AFRC), at Edwards AFB, CA. where it was placed on display.

  • According to a NASA Technology Facts, LLTV B3, the last of the three training vehicles built, is on public display at the Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX.

  • This Neil Armstrong LLRV presentation may be of interest, as may this NASA Gallery.

  • This photo is of particular interest as it shows the LLRV being moved for temporary display. It may still be at the Air Force Flight Test Museum at Edwards — they are probably the best people to ask.

  • Finally this NASA link on System Failure Case Studies is interesting too.
[On Edit 10-Jan-2018]
  • Close-up images of the JSC-displayed LLTV NASA 952. Also on display, and featured in the JSC image sequence above, is the rotational hand controller recovered from the 8 December 1968 crash of LLTV No. 1.

  • NASA correspondence related to the investigation into the crash of LLTV 1.

thisismills
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Posts: 94
From: Michigan
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 01-09-2018 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thisismills   Click Here to Email thisismills     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by YankeeClipper:
It may still be at the Air Force Flight Test Museum[ at Edwards — they are probably the best people to ask.
In November 2017, I went on a tour of Edwards, which included the AFFTC museum. The LLRV is there, inside the main museum building.

I was told by museum staff that in a few years time, thanks in part to a recent large donation, the museum would be relocated outside of the main gate. This is a welcome change, allowing anyone to see all the amazing artifacts without having to obtain base clearance.

In the meantime, here are details for those interested in visiting the museum.

YankeeClipper
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Posts: 533
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Mar 2011

posted 01-10-2018 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YankeeClipper   Click Here to Email YankeeClipper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA Technical Note TN D-3023 Design & Operational Characteristics of a Lunar-Landing Research Vehicle has great information. Details about the Weber Ejection Seat are on page 13.

holcombeyates
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Posts: 181
From: UK
Registered: Dec 2010

posted 01-12-2018 04:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for holcombeyates   Click Here to Email holcombeyates     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is great info — many thanks. Great photo of the hand controller.

Will keep hunting for the report into Armstrong's crash.

Robert Pearlman
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From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 01-12-2018 09:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just to avoid any possible confusion, the hand controller is from LLTV no. 1 (as noted), which was piloted by Joseph Algranti; not LLRV no. 1, which was the craft Armstrong crashed.

I am not aware of any display, or archive of the wreckage of LLRV no. 1.

YankeeClipper
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Posts: 533
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Mar 2011

posted 01-12-2018 11:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for YankeeClipper   Click Here to Email YankeeClipper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A little NASA background note on LLRV No. 2.
Partially restored by a movie company in the late 1990s, one of the two original Lunar Landing Research Vehicles remains on limited display today at NASA Dryden.

YankeeClipper
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Posts: 533
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Mar 2011

posted 01-17-2018 11:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YankeeClipper   Click Here to Email YankeeClipper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A few more references you may find interesting:
  • 2006 Dr. Christian Gelzer Dryden FRC The Lunar Landing Research Vehicle; Prelude to the Arrival at Tranquility Base.

  • 1966 NASA-CR-71253 Study of modification of a lunar landing research vehicle to a lunar landing training vehicle.

  • 1965 US-PATENT-3,191,316 Lunar landing flight research vehicle patent.

    1968 NASA-TM-X-61164 Studies of piloting problems of one-man flying units operated in simulated lunar gravity. This contains some unique design photos and the following interesting statement:

    One of the research vehicles is the LLRV (fig. 13) which had been flown originally as a research vehicle at the Flight Research Center (ref. 16) and was more recently flown as a training vehicle at MSC until being completely demolished in the recent crash.
  • 1968 NASA-TN-D-4131 Lunar module pilot control considerations.

YankeeClipper
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Posts: 533
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Mar 2011

posted 01-18-2018 01:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for YankeeClipper   Click Here to Email YankeeClipper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Go For Lunar Landing Conference, March 4 -5, 2008, Tempe, AZ. Both presentations from LLRV/LLTV personnel have useful material.

YankeeClipper
Member

Posts: 533
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Mar 2011

posted 01-18-2018 01:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for YankeeClipper   Click Here to Email YankeeClipper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This passage from p.140 of NASA SP-2004-4535 explains the violent nature of LLRV/LLTV crashes:
The presence of both fuels created a volatile combination. Later, after the crashes of LLRV No. 1 and LLTV No. 1, Deke Slayton–director of flight crew operations at the MSC–changed the policy regarding the role of firemen and other personnel. His comments are revealing:

Hydrogen peroxide [H2O2] and JP-4 [jet fuel] make an extremely hazardous combination that has proven to be not only inflammable and self-igniting, but also shock sensitive, i.e., it will explode, releasing energy equivalent of dynamite. We have had two incidents where just a few ounces of 90 percent H2O2 was sprayed on a JP-4-soaked rag during a demonstration and it detonated of its own accord, rattling nearby windows. Besides the H2O2/JP-4 hazard, the vehicle has 4000 psi He [helium] pressure and lesser pressures that are just as dangerous as explosives when their containers have been subjected to structural and heat damage.

YankeeClipper
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Posts: 533
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Mar 2011

posted 01-18-2018 02:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for YankeeClipper   Click Here to Email YankeeClipper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

holcombeyates
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Posts: 181
From: UK
Registered: Dec 2010

posted 01-18-2018 07:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for holcombeyates   Click Here to Email holcombeyates     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, great info. Many thanks.

onesmallstep
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Posts: 1230
From: Staten Island, New York USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 01-30-2018 04:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for onesmallstep   Click Here to Email onesmallstep     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For the record; the last LLTV (NASA 952) is on display at NASA Johnson in a building that also features a mural by Bob McCall, but is not on regular public tour stops. Only NASA employees or guests may view it at present.

Spacepsycho
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Posts: 803
From: Huntington Beach, Calif.
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 02-12-2018 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacepsycho   Click Here to Email Spacepsycho     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If anyone is interested I videotaped Neil's Armstrong's White Paper presentation about the LLTV he gave at the SETP in Disneyland around 2003-04. I don't know how to transfer it to DVD or download it to my computer but it was a fascinating talk.

I also have photos of the LLTV located at Dryden, yes I know it's now Armstrong, but to old farts like me who've been going there since the 70s, it will always be Dryden.

All times are CT (US)

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