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Author Topic:   Neil Armstrong's Apollo 11-flown McDivitt purse
Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-06-2015 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
collectSPACE
Neil Armstrong's purse: First moonwalker had hidden bag of Apollo 11 artifacts

Neil Armstrong had a secret stash of moon landing mementos.

The first man to walk on the moon kept a bag full of small parts from the lunar module "Eagle" that he and his Apollo 11 crewmate Buzz Aldrin famously piloted to a landing at Tranquility Base on July 20, 1969. The stowage bag was discovered by Armstrong's widow after he died in 2012.

"I received an email from Carol Armstrong that she had located in one of Neil's closets a white cloth bag filled with assorted small items that looked like they may have come from a spacecraft," Allan Needell, the Apollo curator at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC, wrote in a blog published on Friday (Feb. 6). "Needless to say, for a curator of a collection of space artifacts, it is hard to imagine anything more exciting."

For more details and photos of the artifacts, see the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal.

nasamad
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posted 02-06-2015 10:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nasamad   Click Here to Email nasamad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have just read the ALSJ article. Probably the best discovery in the back of a closet since them kids found Narnia!

A great article and brilliant bit of detective work with the yellow paint on the tether.

onesmallstep
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posted 02-06-2015 11:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for onesmallstep   Click Here to Email onesmallstep     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow! This is amazing and great news for space history and the NASM, which will open a redesigned Apollo gallery in a few years (the 16mm camera and tether used by Armstrong inside the LM will be prime exhibits, I'm sure). It certainly sheds an important light on the lunar surface activities during Apollo 11 — and also that you never know what you can find in a dusty closet!

As is well known on this site, President Obama signed into law on Sept. 25, 2012 a bill that all Mercury, Gemini and Apollo astronauts have legal title to the artifacts or mementos they kept from their missions. Being private, and perhaps seeing during his lifetime the controversy generated by artifacts being brought up for auction and subsequently in dispute, he kept silent or perhaps forgot the discovered items were there.

In any case, we have him, and the Armstrong family, to thank for preserving and loaning out important pieces of space history. I wonder how many more caches of 'stuff' are out there, waiting to be found?

LM-12
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posted 02-06-2015 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wonder if Buzz Aldrin has had the chance to see these items again in person.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-06-2015 11:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
According to Allan Needell, neither Aldrin or Michael Collins have been informed (by him at least) of the purse. His first priority was to authenticate and do thorough background research on the items, and that process is still ongoing.

Now that the artifacts are public, I am sure that both Aldrin and Collins will be made aware (if they aren't already).

GACspaceguy
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posted 02-06-2015 12:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nasamad:
A great article and brilliant bit of detective work with the yellow paint on the tether.
That "yellow paint" looks like typical chromate primer that is all over Grumman aluminum parts.

Jurg Bolli
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posted 02-06-2015 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jurg Bolli   Click Here to Email Jurg Bolli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fascinating!

onesmallstep
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posted 02-06-2015 01:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for onesmallstep   Click Here to Email onesmallstep     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Would be interesting to see Gen. McDivitt's reaction to this find inside one of 'his' purses (or TSB). He may be flashing one of his trademark grins right about now!

Also, what would be a ballpark insurance estimate for the value of the items, being as they are on loan only and would probably never be sold (at least in my lifetime anyway)? And was there only one 'purse' per flight taken and filled with loose items? I guess the rest that weren't returned are in the wreckage of the LM ascent stages on the moon, burned in Earth reentry (Apollo 9, 13) or still in a Heliocentric orbit (Apollo 10).

4allmankind
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posted 02-06-2015 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 4allmankind   Click Here to Email 4allmankind     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What a bag of treasure. Turns out Neil was a collector after all, which makes me happy!

Incidentally, I had always thought such a find from his collection was possible. I have somewhat kept tabs on what Apollo 11 items Buzz Aldrin has publicly sold, starting in 1991 if memory serves, and the key pieces from the LM never came to market, nor were ever on the NASM online archive.

I always thought there was a chance.

Also, I looked through the LIFE photo archive a few months ago and some of my favorite shots are of the men in their home man caves. The photos of Young at home barely show wall color because there is so much memorabilia hanging around him.

The shots of Armstrong at work in his library show his GT-8 patch set and some heat shield lucites (taken pre-Apollo 11) so it was clear that he showed at least some interest in retaining certain flown artifacts.

space1
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posted 02-06-2015 03:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for space1   Click Here to Email space1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Excellent research and documentation work by all involved. Fascinating collection!

mach3valkyrie
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posted 02-06-2015 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mach3valkyrie   Click Here to Email mach3valkyrie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A spectacular display of surface flown items from Apollo 11 no less! I'm glad they found their way to the NASM. Great research by all involved.

David C
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posted 02-06-2015 04:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd just like to add my thanks to the Armstrong family for providing access to these artifacts.

Rick Mulheirn
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posted 02-06-2015 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ditto. The monetary value of these items had the family chosen to sell would have been astronomical. I guess we will never know what Neil Armstrong had intended to do with the purse and its contents.

Personally I find Neil's desire to retain artifacts reassuring; a very "human" thing to do for a man often perceived (incorrectly) as somehwhat cold and aloof.

mode1charlie
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posted 02-06-2015 09:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mode1charlie   Click Here to Email mode1charlie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What a find! I second the laudatory comments already made to the Armstrong family and NASM/ALSJ teams.

freshspot
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posted 02-07-2015 04:20 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A truly amazing discovery. Better than anything I can imagine (discovering Lewis and Clark's Expedition Trunk for example).

I'm so glad that everything was fully documented and made publicly available before the news broke widely. Otherwise I fear there would have been rampant speculation that would have distracted from this amazing find.

bunnkwio
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posted 02-07-2015 09:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bunnkwio   Click Here to Email bunnkwio     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just WOW!! I agree with Rick's comments. Not that he wasn't human, but for someone claimed to always be so focused on the missions, he had a moment where he felt "Heck yeah I'm grabbing some stuff to save!".

I can't wait to be able to see these items displayed. Stuff like this almost brings me to tears.

Of course this would be a better story if I happened to attend Carol's garage sale and bought the bag for $50, but that's just my feeling.

ejectr
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posted 02-07-2015 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ejectr   Click Here to Email ejectr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wasn't it just like Neil Armstrong to keep his treasure a secret so that we all can benefit from it.

The man was a gem. Hard to find.

datkatz
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posted 02-07-2015 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for datkatz   Click Here to Email datkatz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Absolutely! If that stuff had belonged to Aldrin, it would all have been sold long ago.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-07-2015 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not necessarily. Aldrin still owns his flown spacecraft hardware (and as of two years ago, ceased selling any of his flown memorabilia).

Bill Hunt
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posted 02-07-2015 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bill Hunt   Click Here to Email Bill Hunt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fascinating. I wonder if he grabbed some of this stuff less with souvenirs or keepsakes in mind and more just for practical reasons. He's of that generation that grew up learning that you didn't waste things. These were tools, possibly useful, so no sense leaving them behind.

I think of my dad, who saved all kinds of little odds and ends like this in back of his garage. Why wouldn't Neil do the same? And then he probably just tossed the bag in the back of his closet and forgot about them. So maybe he never really considered them his "secret stash" of Moon flown items. It's possible he never thought of them as valuable in that way.

Lou Chinal
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posted 02-07-2015 04:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lou Chinal   Click Here to Email Lou Chinal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is classic Neil. He was one cool guy.

4allmankind
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posted 02-07-2015 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 4allmankind   Click Here to Email 4allmankind     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can't get over his use of the word "trash", during the flight. Perhaps he knew the pieces would be somehow noteworthy, but not the historical treasures that they clearly are today.

LM-12
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posted 02-08-2015 09:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The stowage list for Apollo 11 has two DACs ("Camera, 16mm Data Acquisition") stowed in the LM on Earth launch day.

On the LM lunar launch stowage list, one 16mm camera is located above the right-hand window. The other 16mm camera is listed as "offloaded" which means jettisoned, I presume.

Was the second 16mm DAC in the LM never used?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-08-2015 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
According to Ulli Lotzmann with the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal, there was a second DAC aboard Eagle that went unused and was (likely) jettisoned with the ascent module.
The header (idendifier) at the beginning of each copy of the lunar surface exposed 16mm mag says footage shot with DAC SN 1035. So there is no doubt that Neil's DAC is the camera that was used.
The spare DAC without a lens was stored in the anxillary stowage container, along with a tool (crank) in case the DAC jammed. Here, courtesy Ulli, is a still frame from the onboard footage showing the anxillary stowage container.

MadSci
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posted 02-08-2015 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MadSci     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The incredible discovery of the artifacts in Neil Armstrong's "purse" is incredibly exciting. As much as we would all undoubtedly dream of winning one of the artifacts it held in an auction, the Armstrong family is, rightfully, planning to donate them to the NASM. One thing I would really look forward to is the possible use of the Data Acquisition Camera and lens to enhance the quality of the video resulting from the DAC's film recording of the Apollo 11 landing and EVA.

There are many digital enhancements that can be applied to images taken from a camera, if the camera and especially the lens assembly have been very minutely mapped both optically and mechanically. Some of these techniques were developed to enhance the resolution of images from film returned to space from the Corona spy satellite series, with a significant increase in resolution. While it would have been better to optically characterize the DAC/lens system before launch, since they may have changed over the decades, there is still a good chance that the fairly low res images from the DAC may be significantly enhanced, giving the world a better view of those protean events on 1969.

I am so excited about this that I am volunteering to clean out any remaining closets in the Armstrong home - for free.

Charlie16
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posted 02-09-2015 04:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Charlie16   Click Here to Email Charlie16     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I contacted Rick Armstrong, who confirmed: "I never saw that bag."

Neil knew guarding its secrets. Now that is gone it is as if he leave the legacy for continue to live. Goodspeed Neil!

onesmallstep
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posted 02-09-2015 08:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for onesmallstep   Click Here to Email onesmallstep     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
According to the ALSJ post cited at the beginning, at this time the bag and its contents are on loan only to the Smithsonian. Whether they will be donated or are a 'promised gift' is up to the Armstrong family.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-09-2015 09:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Per the National Air and Space Museum's website the artifacts are "promised gift[s] from the Neil Armstrong Family."

LM-12
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posted 02-09-2015 09:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
The spare DAC without a lens was stored in the anxillary stowage container
The ancillary stowage container seen in the still frame above was taken from the Commander's checklist stowage pocket, according to Buzz Aldrin in the mission transcript at 02 08 07 16 GET.

garyd2831
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posted 02-09-2015 05:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for garyd2831   Click Here to Email garyd2831     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lester Holt just mentioned the Armstrong item discovery tonight on the NBC Nightly News. Just watched it.

Captain Apollo
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posted 02-09-2015 07:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Captain Apollo   Click Here to Email Captain Apollo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With the recent revelation that the camera was with Neil Armstrong for more than 45 years, where did we previously think it was?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-09-2015 07:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by garyd2831:
Lester Holt just mentioned the Armstrong item discovery tonight on the NBC Nightly News.
And, if viewers then went to NBC News' website to read more about the story, they would find this familiar article.

The news sort of went viral today, with all three networks reporting, as well as NPR, the Huffington Post, CNET and many others (including the British tabloids).

LM-12
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posted 02-10-2015 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Apollo 11 stowage list revision notice is dated 7-15-69. In the "change-reason" column, it has "QTY CHG FROM 1" and "P/N CHG FROM -205" for the LM 16mm DAC.

The Ancillary Stowage Bag is listed as a "NEW ITEM", as is the maintenance tool for the 16mm camera.

Skythings
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posted 02-10-2015 05:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Skythings   Click Here to Email Skythings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The story was carried on our local Calgary News today.

Marvellous human side of Mr. Armstrong revealed.

I was curious about the long string of down low logistics required to get that bag back into his possession after splashdown. The Apollo 11 crew were not carrying any objects getting into the recovery basket or off the helicopter and then directly into the quarantine facility.

He would have been separated from the bag for at least two weeks at minimum in my estimation. Not to mention the capsule and all the items aboard it were quarantined, examined and inventoried. He would have had to entrust these items with someone on the ground during this period. A bag man. Possibly more than one.

Speculation on my part, but it looks like perhaps there were others who would have known about his souvenirs and kept silent or even quietly sanctioned his collection.

Good job folks.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-10-2015 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Skythings:
...the long string of down low logistics required to get that bag back into his possession after splashdown.
At the time, it probably wasn't very down low, if low at all.

Deke Slayton once told a reporter that there was a process in place, whereby the crew members, prior to launching to the moon, provided a list of the items they wanted to return to Earth and so long as that list matched up post-flight, they were theirs to keep. Slayton also set the policy that the contents of those lists were not to be made available to the press or the public.

If that account is accurate, than whoever was working on unpacking the command module probably did so with the knowledge of what items went to who and went about it as business as usual.

The thing is, because Slayton never made the inventories public and Armstrong never spoke publicly about the purse, there was no way for anyone outside the spacecraft processing team to know what had returned to Earth. And because there was nothing nefarious about the purse going home with Armstrong, there was never any reason for anyone within NASA or the contractors to make any note of it.

golddog
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posted 02-10-2015 07:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for golddog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In "Carrying the Fire," Michael Collins describes entering Columbia after the spacecraft had been retrieved from the ocean and attached to the MQF on Hornet, to obtain books and equipment. The spacecraft was attached to the MQF by a plastic tunnel.

Collins also had time to make a written "thank you" to the spacecraft above the navigation console. Perhaps that may have been the time that PPKs, etc. were retrieved, but from what I have read, while the spacecraft was attached to the MQF there was nothing to stop the astronauts entering the spacecraft if they wished (which in my view is exactly as it should have been — it was their spacecraft).

I have also seen photographs of Collins sitting on the door sill of the spacecraft. The spacecraft is damaged from re-entry, and Collins has his moustache, so whilst the photos I have seen were undated it is reasonable to assume the photos were taken while the crew were in the LRL after the mission.

As a personal comment I find this whole thread fascinating, and believe it shows a very human side to an an amazing man (Armstrong).

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-10-2015 10:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
David Letterman just riffed on the find during his monologue, which is how you know the news has really gone wide.
I found this fascinating, Neil Armstrong's widow was going through his closet and she found a bunch of things that he brought back with him from the moon. You know, Neil Armstrong of course, the first man to walk on the moon. And there's some souvenirs and I thought, "Wait a minute, there's a gift shop on the moon?"

But seriously, she found in this little bag that he carried with him to the moon, there was a clamp, there were some cables, there was a t-shirt, a refrigerator magnet, some shot glasses...

There was some 16 millimeter footage shot of by Neil Armstrong of his first step onto the surface of the moon and then guess what? It's interrupted by Kanye West! Honest to god!

Update: Here's the video, his remarks start at 2 minutes, 30 seconds in:

onesmallstep
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posted 02-11-2015 10:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for onesmallstep   Click Here to Email onesmallstep     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The souvenirs kept by the astronauts during Apollo (and before) jibe with the account provided by Robert on the policy attributed to Deke Slayton. Until the recent spate of controversy generated by items up for auction, those astronauts that accumulated artifacts (such as Ed Mitchell and the Apollo 14 camera) could naturally point to 'Deke's rule' in keeping the items.

Only when the storm blew on the ownership of the items did NASA and Congress step in, with a bill signed into law in 2012 covering all mementos kept from Mercury thru ASTP. What is significant to note, although a separate policy has been in effect for kept items from 1999 onwards, no rule/directive is in place for the years 1981-1998 that I am aware of - a time that includes the early, 'legacy years' of the Space Shuttle.

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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posted 02-11-2015 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Makes you wonder what other McDivitt purses are out there, and/or what artifacts are missing or unaccounted for. Anyone want to buy Pete Conrad's house?

LM-12
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posted 02-23-2015 10:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
and "P/N CHG FROM -205" for the LM 16mm DAC

A bit hard to read, but it looks like you can see that change in this photo of the camera tag.


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