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  Preserving, storing and framing flown flags

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Author Topic:   Preserving, storing and framing flown flags
thump
Member

Posts: 568
From: washington dc usa
Registered: May 2004

posted 01-09-2008 12:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thump   Click Here to Email thump     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've just received a flown STS-118 American Flag presentation, and while it came in a nice presentation folder, I would like to frame it.

I've seen other flags where the glue used to adhere it to the cardboard paper presentation has shown through the flag. If I put this in a certificate type frame for now, where the flag is flush with the glass, is this yellowing possible? Thank you for any thoughts/ideas!

Go4Launch
Member

Posts: 431
From: Bethesda, Md.
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 01-09-2008 02:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Go4Launch   Click Here to Email Go4Launch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's my belief the yellowing is caused by a chemical change in the glue over time. Whether this is caused or exacerbated by exposure to UV I'm not sure, so it would be interesting to hear from someone who has a glued flown flag they've always kept out of the light.

The again it may also be possible NASA may be using a better glue these days -- the yellowing I've seen has been with flags from the 70's and 80's...

Rick Mulheirn
Member

Posts: 2792
From: England
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 01-09-2008 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have an STS-1 flown flag presentation I acquired from Lunar Legacies some years ago. I can only presume that this had been kept out of sunlight. The discolouration to the flag by the adhesive is, comparison with many identical presentations I have seen over the years, minimal.

albatron
Member

Posts: 2225
From: Stuart, Florida, USA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 01-09-2008 07:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for albatron   Click Here to Email albatron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't use tape, any type tape, or glue. It does yellow.

While I was selling Paul Weitz's flown flags and patches, he had already had them done up in a nice presentation, but it applies to flags as well.

Rather than glue them or tape them, he would have them stitched to the matting, flags in the four corners, as applicable with the patches.

I stole his idea for use with Al Worden's flags when I was selling those for him. Stitching them to the matting.

I would put a picture of the CM in orbit and he would sign them in the space provided certifying the flag was flown as Weitz did on his presentations. We made them on 10x13 or 11x14 mattes and they frame easily.

MrSpace86
Member

Posts: 1450
From: Gardner, KS, USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-20-2008 08:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrSpace86   Click Here to Email MrSpace86     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I recently obtained a presentation that contains a flown flag from the STS-41D mission. The signatures are starting to fade severely and some of the pics are warped from moisture or sunlight. I was thinking about taking it apart and taking bits and pieces of it to put it into my album since the presentation is in bad shape and I don't have space on my wall. What do you guys think I should do if you were in my chair? Would doing what I propose ruin the value of the item or make it slightly more attractive?

RMH
Member

Posts: 563
From: Ohio
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 02-20-2008 09:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RMH   Click Here to Email RMH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think if you separate the flag from the presentation you sort of lose the provenance. True you still have the certificate and the flag (separately) but, in my opinion, it loses a little something. I wouldn't buy such a split up presentation, therefore I think it would lose value.

However, if you feel that separating it would make it look nicer, and you don't care about value, then that sounds like a good idea. I'm sure others will differ from my opinion.

MrSpace86
Member

Posts: 1450
From: Gardner, KS, USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-20-2008 12:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrSpace86   Click Here to Email MrSpace86     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, it would lose value and I thought about that but I probably wont sell any of my stuff anytime soon! I would take a picture of it before "cutting" it up and then putting them in my own format.

Kevmac
Member

Posts: 196
From: College Station, TX
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 06-03-2008 05:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevmac   Click Here to Email Kevmac     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm soliciting advice for what words to put on a certificate that will be framed with a shuttle-flown US flag and mission patch. Has anyone designed their own certificate to go with their framed display or received something with words they thought were very appropriate?

astronut
Member

Posts: 969
From: South Fork, CO
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 06-07-2008 08:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for astronut   Click Here to Email astronut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had a 12x18" Texas state flag flown on Apollo 12 framed a few years ago. I paid for museum grade framing and had the flag "floated" over the mat. It was carefully sewn to the "float" mat.

bthumble
Member

Posts: 160
From: Houston, Texas USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 02-19-2010 09:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bthumble   Click Here to Email bthumble     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a few flown flag presentations and certificates that I would like to put in some type of storage sleeves. Any suggestions on something that will protect, yet the item will not stick to the sleeve?

Editor's note: Threads merged

bthumble
Member

Posts: 160
From: Houston, Texas USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 03-01-2010 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bthumble   Click Here to Email bthumble     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am still unsure of what to store some of my flown flags on certificate and other NASA related certificates. Any suggestions on what type of clear sleeve to use that will not stick or harm the items. Thanks.

daveblog
Member

Posts: 132
From: Bergenfield, NJ USA
Registered: May 2004

posted 03-01-2010 04:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for daveblog   Click Here to Email daveblog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have you looked into the sleeves available from archivalmethods.com? I have been using their sleeves for my autographed photos without issue so far.

bthumble
Member

Posts: 160
From: Houston, Texas USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 03-01-2010 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bthumble   Click Here to Email bthumble     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do they have sleeves that will go in binders with the proper holes?

garyd2831
Member

Posts: 520
From: Syracuse, New York, USA
Registered: Oct 2009

posted 12-23-2012 11:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for garyd2831   Click Here to Email garyd2831     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is my latest framing job which includes a flown American flag from Apollo 12 from Moonpans, Apollo 12 crew signed picture, from Steve Smith, Apollo 12 patch from Chris Spain and Navy Astronaut wings, from eBay. The flag certificate is just just hidden under the matting and was not cut or damaged in any way.

What does everyone think?

garyd2831
Member

Posts: 520
From: Syracuse, New York, USA
Registered: Oct 2009

posted 02-25-2013 01:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for garyd2831   Click Here to Email garyd2831     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is my latest flown flag creation. Gemini IV flown American flag display which includes an Ed White signed cover that is "tilted" from behind the matting in order to show the signature straight (it is not a cut signature), copied portraits of White and McDivitt from a vintage Gemini IV launch witness certificate that I purchased off of eBay, the crew patch from Novaspace and Air Force Astronaut wings, vintage look non polished type.

What does the space collecting community think?

328KF
Member

Posts: 929
From:
Registered: Apr 2008

posted 02-25-2013 05:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 328KF   Click Here to Email 328KF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Love it! The blue suede mat looks really nice, and the portraits are a nice touch. A couple of questions:

Did you stitch the flag to the back mat material or attach it otherwise? I bought the correct size sleeves from Archival Methods mentioned above, and I plan to frame it inside that sleeve. It is virtually invisible, holds the flag stiff and keeps it from "drooping", and I can use acid free tape behind it without worrying about staining the flag.

Also, do you know if the wings are correct for the time period that GT-4 flew?

For those who didn't realize it, I believe those flags are the same ones the crew put on their spacesuits as the first unofficial crew patch. Having seen close-up shots of the actual flags on the suits, they appear to be of the same material and the stars and stripes are identical, including the slight overlap of the red stripes into the blue area.

Thanks. Again, great job!

garyd2831
Member

Posts: 520
From: Syracuse, New York, USA
Registered: Oct 2009

posted 02-25-2013 06:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for garyd2831   Click Here to Email garyd2831     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The flag is mounted with acid free double sided tape to a white board and the board is mound the blue suede matted opening.

The Air Force Astronaut Wings did come out in the 1960s, I just don't know exactly when. These wings are a modern day made wing and not a vintage sterling set like these ones.

jemmy
Member

Posts: 143
From:
Registered: Dec 2010

posted 06-22-2013 11:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jemmy   Click Here to Email jemmy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have just received my Apollo 15 flown Irish flag signed by Al Worden from Steve Hankow at Farthest Reaches (Steve really went to the farthest reaches to help me on this one, thanks Steve).

Would like to hear opinions on the best way to display and frame this flag.

Firstly, the most important thing here is to preserve the flag so framing is the most important i.e., paper, glass, holding the flag in place, etc.

Secondly, display. I also have a letter of authenticity from Al Worden and I was thinking of incorporating this LOA with the flag, would you think this would be a good idea and/or include a photograph or maybe a Moonpan or would just plan and simple be best.

Your advise would be so helpful.

Editor's note: Threads merged.

YankeeClipper
Member

Posts: 319
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Mar 2011

posted 06-22-2013 02:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YankeeClipper   Click Here to Email YankeeClipper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
An absolute must is UV protection from either an Archival Methods sleeve and/or Tru Vue Museum or Conservation Clear Glass. Make sure your framer uses acid-free mats and mounting hinges. Do not use glue directly on the flag - small sewn corner stitches onto a mat are a far better method and archival sleeves are better again. Do not display in direct sunlight or even a brightly lit room as the glass only blocks 99% of UV light. Ask your framer for a breakdown on all materials used to prove that they have actually given you conservation grade materials and for future reference if you want to display another piece.

How about displaying the Irish flag above either a signed Apollo 15 Prime Crew photo or Apollo 15 Crescent Earthrise? I could be wrong but I think Al Worden may have taken that classic crescent shot. I always think it looks smart when a gold plaque details the flown status of the flag, mission dates etc. You could position the plaque between an Apollo 15 mission patch and the Apollo program patch. Alternatively you could display the flag with a flown equipment artifact (if you have one) which always looks great.

jemmy
Member

Posts: 143
From:
Registered: Dec 2010

posted 06-23-2013 07:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jemmy   Click Here to Email jemmy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for your advise Yankeeclipper. Really, really helpful.

I am going to use a recommended museum framer and use Tru-Vue glass, probably will be expensive but at least it will be done right and I don't have to worry about the flag.

I would love to include a crew signed photo but I'd say they are rare to find and if I found one it probably would be expensive, sounds great but maybe just the crescent shot would be cheaper.

I'm thinking of also including a mission patch and yes, I will also include a plaque describing the flown flag, nice advice.

jemmy
Member

Posts: 143
From:
Registered: Dec 2010

posted 05-09-2014 05:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jemmy   Click Here to Email jemmy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
May I get your opinion of adding an astronaut signature to my Apollo 15 Irish flown flag signed by Al Worden (shown above).

I have the opportunity to add Dave Scott to this flown piece. Do you think this would be a good idea or do you think I should leave it as it is? I would like to get Scott added but it will always be incomplete.

Greggy_D
Member

Posts: 788
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006

posted 05-09-2014 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greggy_D   Click Here to Email Greggy_D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would leave it as-is. A "fresh" Dave Scott signature would vastly change the look of the flag and wouldn't contrast very well with the Worden signature/inscription. As you also mentioned, a completion isn't a possibility.

I'm also assuming this flag was directly from Worden's personal collection. Personally, I do not add additional signatures to items like that, but it is a matter of individual preference.

YankeeClipper
Member

Posts: 319
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Mar 2011

posted 05-10-2014 09:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for YankeeClipper   Click Here to Email YankeeClipper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Greggy_D:
I would leave it as-is.
Agreed.

It would be better to get Dave Scott's and Al Worden's autographs on an Apollo 15 Crescent Earth photo and display the flag and photo together.

jemmy
Member

Posts: 143
From:
Registered: Dec 2010

posted 05-10-2014 03:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jemmy   Click Here to Email jemmy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks a million for your reply/s. I think I will just leave the flag alone and not get a signature added.

I like your idea about the crescent of the the earth signed by Worden and Scott. I would love to have a full crew signed photo but I'd say it would be expensive with Irwin added.

jonspace
Member

Posts: 84
From: VA/MD USA
Registered: Jan 2014

posted 08-07-2014 12:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jonspace   Click Here to Email jonspace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has anyone separated glue-yellowed flags from the certificates and/or (dare I suggest) tried to clean them?

pharoid
Member

Posts: 65
From:
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 09-06-2014 05:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pharoid   Click Here to Email pharoid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I recently purchased a flown flag and patch on an 11"x14" presentation certificate.

The flag and patch are still firmly attached to the certificate but the paper card certifying that the flag and patch were flown and the mission information has fallen off. Looks like the adhesive has dried out.

What can I use to reattach the certification to the presentation? Any help is highly appreciated. Thanks to all the cS members for all their help.

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