posted 11-05-2015 05:18 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mercsim:
Guenter was VERY busy and things changed very rapidly in those days so its not a stretch that he got confused with Gemini. His work was pad checkout and not capsule configuration.

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posted 11-05-2015 06:01 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Chuckster01:
I would think calling Guenter Wendt just a pad engineer...

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Because he had direct interaction with MGA astronauts, he became bigger than life. There have been pad engineers before him (on unmanned missions) and after him (unmanned and shuttle) who have done the same roles,* just without the spotlight.**

*Responsible for overall spacecraft operations or just white room ops.

posted 11-05-2015 06:20 AM               

Early on, first going back to the late 1980's, Guenter first mentioned the stainless steel devices to Rick Boos (later Rick told me about them).

If we can only found out or know the manufacturer of the buoyancy balls (maybe it wasn't McDonnell), that would certainly be a vital piece of the puzzle.

I've got an extensive space file library of sorts from many space age personalities and reliable sources going back to the start of the missile and space age. As time permits on a weekly or so basis, I am always checking over them for some interesting space facts, figures, and stories. Maybe one of these days there will be a file folder about this very same topic.

posted 11-05-2015 07:32 AM               

I have found photos on the net of the Mercury spacecraft in the sea during recovery tests and actual recovery and none show inflation bags inflated. In addition to this, when Gus Grissom's Mercury Spacecraft was found on the seabed it was in the upright position. This may be due to a low centre of gravity of the craft or by buoyancy of the craft. Were any spheres recovered with this craft?

posted 11-05-2015 08:42 AM               

I did have a conversation with Sam Beddingfield while we were looking at the flown Gemini flotation sphere on display at the old SWoF museum. He did not recall their use in the Mercury s/c.

There is also a LOA, that I don't have access to, that was written by Rick Boos in support of the sphere that originated with Guenter Wendt.

Yes, I know, anecdotal evidence only....

posted 11-05-2015 10:10 AM               

And it would seem to me, though, that the airman's account of a flown MA-9/Faith 7 flotation ball would seem more on the credible side, from what and how he said it.

But of course, in regards to incidents and memories so long ago, mistakes can and do happen.

posted 11-05-2015 10:57 AM               

The 'Gemini' flotation balls have now been referenced as Stainless, Titanium, and Aluminum. It's not unreasonable to think they could have been made them out of different materials but it's more likely they were just as the drawing stated. There really wouldn't have been the luxury of time for trying various materials for such a simple item.

I don't want to question the character of a young airman that served his country and went on to have a great career. The point was what would he have known about the inner workings and configuration of the most complicated flying craft built to date. An assembly technician was probably more familiar. We don't know the airman's job. Military personal, especially such a young one, didn't have much to do with actual capsule stuff. He could have been in security or any other of thousands of jobs at the time at the Cape.

The Mercury familiarization manual was revised several times. There are no less than four different ones available on the net these days. The foreword in each one talks about revisions and which capsules it addresses. Mercury was a dynamic experimental program where engineers had the authority to change things on the fly much easier than they do today.

I have been infatuated with all things Mercury most of my life. I am a retired aerospace engineer and have built models all my life. I have read everything Mercury related and actually keep a familiarization manual on my phone (I know, total nerd...). I have over 6000 photographs of Mercury capsules categorized and sorted. Most of them are from the inside of many different capsules. My Mercury capsule model is the most detailed in existence short of the real deals. Every structural component is accounted for as are nearly every fastener. You can see more about it and my total Mercury Nerdiness at spacecraftreplicas.com.

posted 11-05-2015 01:07 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mercsim:
Just for fun, I also checked the weight of seawater and it works out that a 3 inch sphere weighs about .5 pounds (someone could check my math). So it would take a LOT of them to float any significant weight. They are not the most practical shape for flotation either...

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Interesting discussion!

Perhaps the small displacement, while not enough to save a swamped capsule, helped provide a 'buoyancy torque' for righting.

Your 0.5lb H2O/sphere is right for a 3" sphere but - if I'm understanding correctly - the 1.4" spheres of Gemini usage would be more like 0.05lb H2O displacement each.

Still, assuming 1700 spheres as uncovered by John you get ~90lb of buoyancy biasing against a ~3500lb (sources varied) Gemini capsule splashdown weight.

It's only ~2-2.5% of total required buoyancy but maybe it was enough to help steer the end-state of the capsule in the water? If nothing else it seems like it would add a similar percent to the 'flotation safety margin' (if there is such a thing).

All that said, I'm still confused about what was used, even under the more understood and accepted Gemini applications.

The listings provided by Robert mention both 1" titanium and 1.25" aluminum spheres, perhaps varying due to approximations/guesses. John's two drawings reflect conflicting 1.25" OD and 1.4" ID spheres so size revisions are suggested, with stainless steel on both.

posted 11-05-2015 02:05 PM               

The purpose of the spheres in Gemini was to raise the nose section so that water would not so readily enter the cabin through the forward corners of the open spacecraft hatchways. The bouyancy was biased in such a way that the command pilot's hatch was slightly more out of the water. After Gemini 3 foam inserts were used instead.

posted 11-05-2015 05:59 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by David Carey:
Chuck, if you have a picture of the Wendt-certified artifact and a measurement of diameter perhaps that would help clarify if there a variant from the Gemini examples mentioned so far.

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I measured the sphere; it is approximately 1-3/16" in diameter for the sphere and a 1-3/8 diameter at the seam. I will be borrowing a set of micrometers from a friend of mine for exact measurements.

The ball looks to me to be Stainless steel but does anyone know a positive way to identify titanium? I have never worked with that metal and I am totally unfamiliar with its appearance.

posted 01-21-2016 04:35 PM               

I'd love to see a photo or two of the ball and the inspection stamp along with any supporting paperwork that you have. There's seems to be no question that these flotation balls flew on GT-2 and GT-3. The question I have is did the balls fly on any Mercury flights. Due to the lack of any hard evidence it appears that they didn't.

posted 01-21-2016 07:04 PM            

A bit of history. I spent several years working on the Apollo CSM at KSC as structures and mechanisms engineer and spent a lot of time working on various areas of the command module and I can't remember anything about float balls being installed anywhere in and about the Apollo capsule.