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Topic: Franklin Mint Apollo 13 flown metal medals
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denali414 Member Posts: 593 From: Raleigh, NC Registered: Aug 2017
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posted 04-27-2019 05:25 AM
I'm struggling to understand the Apollo 13 silver and bronze coins from the Franklin Mint.They minted 7,507 of the silver (in a blue cardboard backing) and 2,490 of the bronze. I have seen claims these contain "flown metal." Has this ever been proven? I understand the direct coins from the astronauts were flown, but what about the 7,507? Thank you! |
tnperri Member Posts: 452 From: Malvern, Ohio Registered: Jun 2011
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posted 04-27-2019 08:21 AM
From my research:Of the 200 serialized Franklin Mint Apollo 13 medals 20 were flown, 19 unknown serial numbers were given out to NASA employees, one was returned to the Franklin Mint. Of the 4,967 Apollo 13 sets, 3,698 were replaced with the medals containing the flown metal of the one coin. No other Franklin Mint Apollo 13 medals contain flown metal. The same for Apollo 14 — 200 were flown (again serialized), 24 were returned to Franklin Mint and were included in the Apollo 14 mini coin. No other Franklin Mint Apollo 14 medals contain flown metal. |
denali414 Member Posts: 593 From: Raleigh, NC Registered: Aug 2017
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posted 04-27-2019 10:49 AM
Thanks Tim! See the silver Apollo 13 (different from the "Project Apollo" coins) on eBay sometimes with the claim of being flown, but just could not find evidence of it. |
denali414 Member Posts: 593 From: Raleigh, NC Registered: Aug 2017
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posted 04-27-2019 11:45 AM
Ok, now confused again. Has anyone seen this COA before for the Apollo 13 coin? From that looks like they "may" have flown metal in them (maybe it is from the one returned to the Franklin Mint?) |
tnperri Member Posts: 452 From: Malvern, Ohio Registered: Jun 2011
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posted 04-27-2019 03:48 PM
The one medal returned was used for the Project Apollo medals. Whether they used excess to make other medals? I have not heard of any but I never seen that COA. I am also not sure what SCI stands for. |
denali414 Member Posts: 593 From: Raleigh, NC Registered: Aug 2017
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posted 04-27-2019 04:26 PM
SCI= Special Commemorative Issue |
Tallpaul Member Posts: 153 From: Rocky Point, NY, USA Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 04-30-2019 11:11 AM
Tim, do you know which of the serialized Apollo 13 Robbins medals were flown? |
tnperri Member Posts: 452 From: Malvern, Ohio Registered: Jun 2011
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posted 04-30-2019 01:32 PM
No do not know. My guess 1-20 but this is just a guess, as I have not seen any s/n's this low. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-30-2019 02:02 PM
What am I misunderstanding about Paul's question? What does "serialized" mean in the context of the 400 silver Robbins medallions flown on Apollo 13? |
denali414 Member Posts: 593 From: Raleigh, NC Registered: Aug 2017
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posted 04-30-2019 05:20 PM
Robert, think Paul is confusing the Robbins medals, from the Franklin Mint medals.There were 400 Apollo 13 flown Robbins medals There were "supposed" 200 serialized Franklin Mint medals and as Tim wrote 20 flown (though there doesn't seem any documentation). |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-30-2019 05:27 PM
Okay, well if that's the case, we can rule out 1 through 20 as per here, numbers 13 and 15 were sold as unflown examples from Lovell's collection. |
Tallpaul Member Posts: 153 From: Rocky Point, NY, USA Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 04-30-2019 09:07 PM
I was inquiring about Tim's statement regarding 20 serialized ie. numbered Franklin Mint medals that he said flew on Apollo 13. I am curious because my understanding is that none of the Franklin Mint medals flew. I made a mistake when I typed in Robbins medals instead of Franklin Mint. I apologize for the confusion.
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Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-30-2019 09:29 PM
Thank you for the clarification. You are correct that none of the Franklin Mint medallions that were sold to the public flew on Apollo 13. But some of the medallions that were marketed to the public were minted in part with flown metal — metal that came from one medallion (out of the 20) that flew on the mission. |
denali414 Member Posts: 593 From: Raleigh, NC Registered: Aug 2017
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posted 05-01-2019 05:03 AM
According to the Franklin Mint COA "several" (not one) that were on the flight were returned to the Franklin Mint. Has the Franklin Mint ever discussed the issue before? |
Larry McGlynn Member Posts: 1255 From: Boston, MA Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 05-01-2019 06:57 AM
We found documentation from various sources including the Franklin Mint and Lovell that only one Franklin Mint medal flew on the mission. |
rjurek349 Member Posts: 1190 From: Northwest Indiana Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 05-01-2019 07:26 AM
There is a lot of confusion in the official record on these medals, as Larry points out. Initially, Lovell informed George Low that only one medal had flown. As Congress pushed forward with Congressional hearings after the Apollo 14 issue surrounding the sale of the "flown" Franklin Mint mini-medals, Lovell had to testify under oath about them. At the time, press reports then stated that he mentioned 20 medals actually flew. How many were given back to the Franklin Mint remains a mystery — from the one referenced by Lovell to Low (which would make sense, given that he told Low about one flown one) or a few (as some of the Mint’s marketing material seems to imply). Perhaps some of the "friends and support crew" had associations with the FM. Either way, in the press reports, the balance of the 20 flown medals not given to the Franklin Mint, it was said, was given out to family, friends, and support crew. The other 180, while not having flown, were within hours of being flown and intended to fly, but were pulled for weight reasons. They still have Mattingly's name on them and are some of the few items intended to fly with the original crew's name on them. Lovell then hung on to these medals for decades, until making them available to collectors. The exact number of flown is certainly between 1 and 20, and I would assume based on all of the documentation and newspaper research I have seen, that 20 is probably the right number, especially given the widely published account after the congressional hearings on the matter and reported in the press at the time. Also, the one medal (and only one medal) being returned to the mint was also widely reported at that time. That being said, I don't think we'll ever know how many were actually returned to FM (because of the friends and family issue of the other 19), but officially the number is just one. Therefore, it is safe to say that the Franklin Mint medals that are reported to have flown metal in them have a very, very minuscule amount of flown metal in them. So going back to the original question of this thread, yes, it has been verified that flown metal was included with these coins via memos, documentation, congressional testimony, and newspaper reports. The only issue outstanding is how much; but certainly, flown molecules of metal are in there.  Of more interest to me is reading the official NASA statements in the press — given by Alan Shepard — after the Apollo 14 investigations that because of these issues, silver medals will never fly again. This was reported as an official NASA view/statement. And yet, we all know, that from then on and to this date, silver Robbins medals flew. I guess Shepard meant to say no more Franklin Mint medals, but then that might beg the question, what about others, and then they would have had to go into the Robbins tradition. Don't forget, this was a very ugly time for NASA in Congress, with a lot of representatives wanting further cuts to NASA budgets, and a swift end to the Apollo program. Much of the confusion is a result of the extraordinary pressure being put on from these external sources to the guys who always believed their personal items were a private matter. It was only when the whiff of commercialization and profiteering came into play (by the Franklin Mint, and not by Lovell or Shepard), that all hell started to break loose. This, of course, was taken to a whole new level of persecution a few months later with Apollo 15. But the agitation at NASA, commercialization, shifting stories, and lack of clarity by Congress about these commercialization issues eventually took on a life of its own, unfortunately. Much of the internal documentation at NASA was not even FOIA available until recently once the passing of HR 4158 stopped the attempts to replevin Mitchell's DAC camera, Lovell's checklist, and several other items from a Heritage Auction a few years ago. I've been researching these medals for the past decade or so. I love items like this with a great backstory with a hint of mystery and trouble to them. As a collector of space flown numismatic items, I actually have one of the few (if only) Franklin Mint serial number pairings from Apollo 13 and 14. I own Edgar Mitchell's flown Franklin Mint Apollo 14 medal, serial number 112, along with a handwritten flight cert from Mitchell; I also was able to acquire from Lovell the Apollo 13 Franklin Mint medal, serial number 112, certified by Lovell to be one intended to fly, as well as the container that he kept all of the medals in for the past few decades. I love having the pairing of those medals for display purposes, just given the story of the one flight they were able to fly, and the one that didn't. It's also neat to know that artist/sculptor Lumen Winter was thrilled that his artwork made it to lunar orbit. I also own a bronze version of the medallion that Winter gave to a close, personal friend. With it, Winter wrote a note saying so, and marveling at the thought that his art had orbited the moon. |
denali414 Member Posts: 593 From: Raleigh, NC Registered: Aug 2017
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posted 05-01-2019 08:03 AM
Thank you Larry and Rich! This makes a lot more sense now. Think can put to rest and Rich that is a great collection addition and something to aspire for. |
Larry McGlynn Member Posts: 1255 From: Boston, MA Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 05-01-2019 08:15 AM
Thanks Rich. Just what I would have said. I just didn't have time to write it all down. |
tnperri Member Posts: 452 From: Malvern, Ohio Registered: Jun 2011
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posted 05-01-2019 08:57 AM
OK let me summarize (if I am correct). At least one maybe 20 flew on Apollo 13. It is unknown what serial numbers were flown. At least one maybe a few were returned to Franklin Mint and used for the Project Apollo sets and possibly the SCI-7 Apollo 13 medals. Some of the possible 20 flown were given out to friends and support crew. My question is has anyone seen or heard of one of the flown Apollo 13 medals? |
rjurek349 Member Posts: 1190 From: Northwest Indiana Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 05-01-2019 09:49 AM
I am not aware of the other flown 19 medallions that presumably are in private hands ever appearing at auction. At least, I have never seen one. (Doesn't mean there haven't been private transactions).And you are correct, we do not know the serial numbers of the ones that flew. Clearly, the one given back by Lovell to the mint was melted down, so the maximum population of flown medallions is only 19 (based on the contemporaneous reports of Congressional testimony). If they've never been flight certified by a crew member, I'd consider those potentially lost to time and history. |
thisismills Member Posts: 263 From: Michigan Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 05-01-2019 12:41 PM
Two Apollo 13 medals originally from Lovell's collection are in Heritage's upcoming (May 2019) auction. They are NGC slabbed and are serial numbers 59 and 40 (lots 50761 and 50762). |
Tallpaul Member Posts: 153 From: Rocky Point, NY, USA Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 05-01-2019 03:08 PM
It is so cool to read that Rich has the container from Jim Lovell in which he stored the Apollo 13 Franklin Mint medals. I also own a set with accompanying letters of authentication. I am the custodian of Apollo 13 Franklin Mint medal no. 118 and Apollo 14 Franklin Mint medal no. 63. These medals still are a lot less expensive than the Robbins medals for the same missions. Of late, the Apollo 13 Franklin Mint medal has been selling for around $1,000 or less. The cost of the Apollo 14 Franklin Mint medal has been steadily increasing over the last couple of years but it still costs less than an Apollo 14 Robbins medal. |
rjurek349 Member Posts: 1190 From: Northwest Indiana Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 05-01-2019 04:18 PM
Cool that you have that pairing! They are great to display together. And I agree: the flown Apollo 14 FM medallions continue to increase in value, but at a discount of that to the Robbins price. The often handwritten COAs by Mitchell really put those over the top. Congrats. |
Tallpaul Member Posts: 153 From: Rocky Point, NY, USA Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 05-01-2019 04:38 PM
Not quite the same as having a pair with the same serial numbers, but it's still a very nice suite to have. |
Larry McGlynn Member Posts: 1255 From: Boston, MA Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 05-01-2019 07:17 PM
Rich and I picked up our Apollo 13 FM medals at about the same time. At the time, Heritage was assuming they were all flown. Rich found a couple of letters from the Franklin Mint. One letter to FM customers, I believe was dated in 1972, stated there was a mistake in the original letter and their Apollo 13 medal presentation. They pointed out that only one FM had flown on Apollo 13 and was melted down. They offered a new set of FM space medals as a replacement. Rich and I did a lot of research on the matter. I might add that I bought an Apollo 14 FM medal from Edgar Mitchell. We were sitting in his home at the time. Edgar commented that he liked the FM medal and thought it was prettier than the Robbins medallion. They are interesting pieces because they are part of the lead up to the Apollo 15 controversy. In fact, the Apollo 14 medal debacle occurred just a couple of months before Apollo 15 lifted off on its mission. What has always interested me is the lack of communication in the astronaut office about the ongoing controversy caused by the Franklin Mint. I would think if the Apollo 15 crew had been warned by Slayton and Shepard, they would not have proceeded with flying any of the covers. |