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Author
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Topic: Archival pens for astronaut autographs
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SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-07-2011 11:03 PM
   
I do not ordinarily hold an interest in astronaut autographs but Kim Poor's efforts at securing what is probably the largest aggregation of Mercury, Gemini and Apollo era crew members we are likely ever to see at the upcoming Spacefest coupled with John Young's event this week has compelled me to consider having at least one artifact festooned with signatures.One concern for me, given the amount of funds to be invested is the durability of the ink. I was surprised to learn that Sharpie ink is perhaps one of worst choices for fade resistance because its dye based and as a result is more susceptible to photo-oxidative degradation. Instead for the Young signing session on the SE-8 have elected to go with a pigment based ink dispensed from a Sakura archival grade instrument (a pen from its Pigma series). The series also has the advantage of being acid free. What if any other alternatives have members considered for their signing sessions? |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 02-11-2011 02:15 PM
The only trouble is, IT NEVER DRIES! |
albatron
Member Posts: 2732
From: Stuart, Florida
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 02-11-2011 02:36 PM
Where did you learn that about Sharpies? I recall the older felt tip black sharpies would yellow over time, but they changed the formula.I've found the plastic tipped ultra fine points work very well, with no bleeding at all. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-11-2011 03:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Spacefest:
The only trouble is, IT NEVER DRIES!
 Yesterday received some different pigment based markers that should dry quicker, will bring them with me when I drop by the shop tomorrow.
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SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-11-2011 03:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by albatron:
Where did you learn that about Sharpies?
In part from Sharpie's FAQ: There seems to be several different styles of Sharpie markers. Is the ink the same in each of the different styles?The black ink in the Fine, Twin Tip, Chisel and Super is permanent ink. The principle solvents are alcohols, but they also contain ethylene glycol monobutyl ether. All other Sharpie ink colors are Permchrome ink. For these the principle solvents are also alcohols, but no glycol ethers are used. What makes a marker permanent? A marker can be classified as a permanent marker if it: - Adheres to most surfaces and/or is water resistant.
- Uses dyes or pigments
The dyes or pigments used, which give the ink color (colorants), determine how well a marking will resist fading. Pigmented inks resist fading the best. The combination of ingredients used in the ink formulation gives the ink permanent properties. Each permanent marker that we manufacture may have one or both of the characteristics mentioned above.How long does a permanent marker last? We do not have a mathematical formula to figure how long a permanent marker will "last." With outdoor exposure on a nonporous surface, the marks from a dye base marker will be gone in perhaps three to four months. With indoor exposure on a porous surface, like artist canvas or paper, we would expect marks from a dye base marker to last several years. Resins or surfactants give the ink the ability to adhere to various surfaces. Thus, we have markers for non-porous and glossy surfaces, markers for oily or wet surfaces and markers that can withstand extreme heat. The solvents that are used mix all of the ingredients together, or dissolve them to form the ink. The solvents used also determine the solvent resistance of the markings. Various solvents used in inks are alcohol, ketone, xylene and glycol ethers.
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Dougin SoCA
Member Posts: 111
From: Aliso Viejo, Ca, USA
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 02-17-2011 12:06 AM
I used to work in a professional photography business. We used to use "permanent" Sharpie's to mark large numbers on the face of our wedding preview photos (to prevent people from just copying them). If they ordered any of the preview sized photos, and we felt the lab had done a good job printing the photos the first time, we had a chemical that would completely remove the ink without any damage to the photos (this was a common practice at the time). So as you can see, "permanent" ink is only an advertising description. |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 02-17-2011 11:47 AM
"permanancy" is related also to the substrate. Sharpie is easily washed off glossy material with acetone, but will mark paper lithos permanently. |
MarylandSpace
Member Posts: 1336
From:
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 02-17-2011 01:29 PM
So, blue or black Sharpies on NASA lithos? |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-17-2011 01:52 PM
Based on the their FAQ, if I had to go with a Sharpie, would elect one of the colored pens because it uses the pigment based Permachrome. |
albatron
Member Posts: 2732
From: Stuart, Florida
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 02-17-2011 07:40 PM
We had the discussion once before about which color sharpie held up the best. If I recall correctly, and my memory is very lacking, it seemed to me the black and silver (felt tip) sharpies won the battle.Doug Henry actually did the anecdotal testing, if he reads this maybe he'll chime in. As Kim said, non glossy surfaces it is permanent. Metal, I dunno. I have the nose art for the X-15 panel, signed by Bob White about two years ago. It's metal, signed in black ink on the yellow NASA logo, and has shown absolutely no signs of fading. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-17-2011 08:03 PM
Recommend thinking in terms of decades (or longer) then just a few years when considering effective permanence/fade resistance of ink, particularly if the intent is to create an enduring piece of memorabilia. In that context, Sharpie ink would probably fail the test. |
Aztecdoug
Member Posts: 1405
From: Huntington Beach
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 02-17-2011 08:43 PM
I ran a rather crude test about 8 years ago. Blue sharpie didn't hold up so well. Black and Silver looked unfazed.See: Sharpies, other signing tools Of course you can run the same test yourself. I just stuck the test article in a South facing window for a few weeks. The baseline was left in a dark drawer. |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 02-17-2011 11:38 PM
What kind of paper? Our tests showed the same, but an awful lot of black ones have faded away, in real life. |
Aztecdoug
Member Posts: 1405
From: Huntington Beach
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 02-18-2011 12:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Spacefest:
What kind of paper?
Kim, if you were asking about the paper I used, it was a piece of Fuji Crystal archive. It was a receipt of sorts with thumbnails of my order that I got back from Shutterfly. If your question was to Scott, then I apologize for jumping in here. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 02-18-2011 12:41 PM
I ran a similar test to what Doug did and got the same results. For me, black sharpie ink held up a lot better than blue sharpie ink. But it may also depend on the batch and formulation used at the time each sharpie was created. Some claim that the older sharpie were more prone to fading.Also, when visiting KSC recently, I noticed one of the framed Moonwalker lithos on display at the gift shop had faded really badly. The blue sharpie signatures were all faded and some (like the Aldrin) were almost completely invisible. The interior lighting in the gift shop was fairly harsh, so it wasn't displayed in ideal conditions. Still, it demonstrated a vulnerability for blue ink to fade significantly over time. In the end, the biggest factor is probably how (and where) you display the piece once it's been signed. If you don't keep the item in a dark drawer, the best place to display it is an interior wall that receives no direct or reflected sunlight. I would also avoid fluorescent lighting too. Or do what I do...display a copy of the signed photo and keep the original in a safe location. |
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