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Author
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Topic: Collecting, cataloging 'all space voyagers'
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Michael Wright
Member Posts: 31
From: Aberdeen, Scotland
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 07-20-2021 08:45 AM
   
I have reluctantly taken the decision to no longer update the "All Space Voyagers" page on my website. The proliferation of billionaires, their relatives, competition winners and assorted hangers-on all venturing into some definition of space is something that just does not inspire me. I have a curiosity over these flights but not an interest in them. I shall continue my longstanding love of space and try to add bits and pieces to my collection and to the website but will be drawing a line in the sand as far as "All Space Voyagers" is concerned. I haven't absolutely finalized a cut-off point but suspect that 60 years after Gagarin's flight might be about right. |
hbw60
Member Posts: 206
From:
Registered: Aug 2018
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posted 07-20-2021 10:45 AM
I agree with you entirely. I don't like the idea of people like Oliver Daemen being on the same list as Yuri Gagarin, Neil Armstrong, John Young, and all of the other genuine astronauts.I always find it strange when news outlets mention that Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, and Richard Branson are inspiring new generations to take interest in space. For me, it's exactly the opposite. The history of space exploration is filled with stories of bravery, innovation, and achievement. I don't know how anyone can be bored by those stories, yet inspired by the story of rich kids buying a suborbital ego trip because their parents are rich. Most of the "astronauts" of the future are people who have inherited wealth, and have never worked a day in their life. They have no real interest in space, but only an interest in themselves and their image. I see no reason to catalogue them on the list. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 46688
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-20-2021 11:12 AM
I came very close a few years ago to liquidating everything I own and, combined with a small inheritance from my late mother, purchasing a ticket on Virgin Galactic. I would have done so, too, if the terms and conditions of their flight contract did not create a conflict of interest. With less than 600 people in all of history who have been to space, it seems premature to start gatekeeping about who gets to be an astronaut. Of course, that does not mean anyone needs to collect their autographs. That is a personal preference. I once made a similar decision as Michael when Dennis Tito flew to the space station 20 years ago, asking publicly if I wanted his autograph. I have changed my mind since, realizing we are still a long way away until spaceflight can be considered common. Those who fly on commercial spaceflights may not see as many requests for their signature, but they will hopefully have a place on the registry of space travelers for the near future. |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1849
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 07-20-2021 01:04 PM
The cost of going to space and remain in space, be it for a few orbits or a long stay on the ISS, has always been paid by the taxpayer. But the "nation" has paid the total cost. Probably close to trillions of dollars. People have applied and been selected as astronauts by these nations and have been paid, by the people, to do this job.Along comes the self-made billionaires, that decide to get into the space travel industry. They decide to make it a business. That's one of the things you can do in a capitalistic society. People who have the finances to go can go, as could you and I if we had the finances and the desire. I have one, but not the other. Just because these people are well off, doesn't mean they don't have a desire to see and feel like, well, we would. Being one that nowhere near has the financial wherewithal to do so. So I say, good for them. Someday Teslas will be affordable, too. |
MartinAir
Member Posts: 82
From:
Registered: Oct 2020
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posted 07-20-2021 02:24 PM
As long as they're self made space tourists and not crony oligarchs and they support science, R&D and exploration I don't have any problems with it. Those who pay for the tickets also subsidize the project and real heroes/legends like Wally Funk. |
hbw60
Member Posts: 206
From:
Registered: Aug 2018
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posted 07-20-2021 02:31 PM
Robert, I agree with you to a point. And I don't think space travelers are automatically invalidated just because it was their wealth that got them into space. From the very early days of the space program, certain people have had an unfair advantage over others, in many different ways. For example, Gus Grissom's friendship with Deke Slayton certainly improved his flight opportunities. And I think certain astronauts (like Walt Cunningham) deserved more than what they were given, because of office politics and favoritism between managers and specific astronauts. So going to space has always had these sorts of problems.Over the years, things have gotten more complex with the rise of space tourism. But for me, the Virgin Galactic/Blue Origin flights represent a fundamental cutoff point from previous eras, because these spacecraft were designed and built specifically for tourism. That doesn't diminish the joy the passengers must feel, nor does it mean they can't be considered space travelers. But this feels like a completely new era, distinct from everything that came before. And it's true that spaceflight is still a very rare privilege. But so is climbing Everest, or sailing around the world, or reaching the South Pole. Not so long ago, these were considered nearly impossible feats. Now, wealthy people do these things every day. And while it's still a relatively rare accomplishment, it's nothing noteworthy or special. To me, collecting Oliver Daemen's autograph would be like chasing down passengers coming off a commercial flight from New York to Paris, congratulating them on their nonstop transatlantic voyage, and asking for an autograph. |
MartinAir
Member Posts: 82
From:
Registered: Oct 2020
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posted 07-20-2021 02:41 PM
One can only earn a status or prestige. Paying customers won't be that collectible, but they can fund/subsidize lunar/Mars exploration missions. |
Pete Sarmiento
Member Posts: 75
From: Fort Washington, MD, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 07-21-2021 10:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Wright:
...but will be drawing a line in the sand as far as "All Space Voyagers" is concerned.
Michael, I agree with you. Paid astronauts should be listed in another category, if somebody wants their autographs.I got Dennis Tito's autograph being the first paying astronaut! |
yeknom-ecaps
Member Posts: 743
From: Northville MI USA
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 07-21-2021 05:48 PM
So at what point do you think Virgin Galactic, Blue Origin, etc. will stop announcing flights and crews? |
hbw60
Member Posts: 206
From:
Registered: Aug 2018
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posted 07-21-2021 09:05 PM
Personally, I don't think they'll ever stop formally announcing crews. The ticket prices are extremely high, and a lot of the allure for people comes from the feeling of doing something incredibly rare and special. The moment these suborbital trips appear mundane, interest will drop. So I think every mission will include formal announcements, launch/landing ceremonies with the awarding of pins/certificates, etc. The only difference will be that with each launch, fewer and fewer outsiders will see those announcements or care about them. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 46688
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-21-2021 10:00 PM
I think suborbital companies will cease releasing the names of all of their passengers when the return from attracting customers who value their privacy overcomes the marketing value of publicizing them. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3454
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 07-22-2021 04:24 PM
For me, once Virgin Galactic or Blue Origin starts taking all paying passengers — when the flights consist of two employees plus paying customers in the case of Virgin Galactic — that'll be a place to stop. I'll collect the recent flights of both companies, but may stop after that. |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 723
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 07-24-2021 01:56 AM
You have to circle Earth at least once in a spacecraft to become member of the Association of Space Explorers. I am regarding this as a good definition for an astronaut. If a Japanese billionaire flies to the Moon and back to Earth he is a real space traveler.
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PeterO
Member Posts: 429
From: North Carolina
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 07-24-2021 07:51 AM
If that hypothetical lunar flight used direct ascent and descent without orbiting the Earth, would you still consider them astronauts? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 46688
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-24-2021 10:23 AM
The Association of Space Explorers requires an orbit for membership but recognizes every person who flies into space — suborbital flights included — as astronauts. |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1794
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 07-24-2021 10:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by cosmos-walter:
You have to circle Earth at least once in a spacecraft to become member of the Association of Space Explorers.
Thanks, Walter, for providing ASE's astronaut membership requirement. Looks like Virgin Galactic's and Blue Origin's passengers will have to find another space organization to join.To be a space traveler, I would think you would have to *travel* somewhere to qualify, with basically straight up and barely out of the atmosphere and landing close to your take-off point after 11 minutes not much of a space travel. Alan Shepard and Gus Grissom, on their Mercury-Redstone sub-orbital flights, did more than just go straight up and reached around 115 miles altitude and over 300 miles down range. I'd call that traveling. As a very long-time collector of astronaut and space traveler autographs, and after now learning of the ASE's orbital flight membership qualification, I can now define and limit my collecting to true space travelers who have orbited the earth,
which has a *membership* of around 570 now. (And when there are direct flights to the moon and back, then I'll redefine my collecting.) |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 1650
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 07-24-2021 09:51 PM
I worked with an astronaut, then the autograph meant something. Otherwise, I don't care. I even had multiple chances of getting John Glenn's but didn't bother. quote:
Originally posted by hbw60:
...inspired by the story of rich kids buying a suborbital ego trip because their parents are rich.
What do you think happened in the 1920's and 30's? Only rich people could afford air travel. But who can now? These short hops and the Dragon flight are just the the beginning.Making space travel more accessible to many is better than a few government employees getting government rides. |
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