Author
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Topic: Photo of the week 641 (February 4, 2017)
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heng44 Member Posts: 3387 From: Netherlands Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 02-04-2017 02:50 AM
Apollo Program Manager and former astronaut Jim McDivitt relaxes in Mission Control after LM Antares carrying Apollo 14 astronauts Alan Shepard and Edgar Mitchell successfully landed on the moon on February 5, 1971. |
Mike Dixon Member Posts: 1397 From: Kew, Victoria, Australia Registered: May 2003
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posted 02-04-2017 06:07 AM
Hard to think of a guy more deserving of commanding his own moon landing mission but we know that story. |
carmelo Member Posts: 1047 From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 02-04-2017 07:11 AM
I have read that was offered to McDivitt to walk on the moon as LMP of Apollo 14, and he said no. Or Commander of nothing! Absurd! |
Buel Member Posts: 649 From: UK Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 02-04-2017 03:21 PM
Wow - is this true? |
Kite Member Posts: 831 From: Northampton UK Registered: Nov 2009
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posted 02-04-2017 04:19 PM
As far as I can tell Jim McDivitt was offered LMP on Apollo 13 which would have been under the command of Alan Shepard. Those of us who attended his talk at Autographica in Birmingham, UK a few years ago certainly know why.As a military man who had commanded two very successful space flights I can understand his position. Remember Gene Cernan was willing to miss his chance to walk on the moon as he wanted command. His gamble paid off. Also Frank Borman, Mike Collins and Tom Stafford could easily have put themselves forward to command a moon landing but chose not too, the first two as they wanted to retire and the latter to take Shepard's place as chief of the astronaut office I have a huge respect for these men, along with McDivitt, even though they never walked on the moon because each contributed greatly to some of the most exciting and difficult space missions ever. It is also worth noting that Dave Scott says in his joint book with Alexei Leonov "Two Sides of the Moon," on page 237, that McDivitt told him the night before re-entry on Apollo 9 that it would be his last mission as he was "really, really tired." Perfectly understandable. Another very interesting photo Ed of a man who had every reason to feel pleased with himself. Thank you. |
Mike Dixon Member Posts: 1397 From: Kew, Victoria, Australia Registered: May 2003
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posted 02-04-2017 05:06 PM
Well I guess Jim can only answer that (not that I doubt Dave Scott), but with his impeccable record and time in space and two commands, no way would I have played second fiddle as a LM pilot. Wished we have a definitive knowledge of that... |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-04-2017 05:15 PM
quote: Originally posted by carmelo: Or Commander of nothing!
Per Jim McDivitt's 1999 NASA Oral History, he was offered command of Apollo 13, but turned it down to (eventually) replace George Low as program manager. I had an opportunity to fly command Apollo 13. And then George Low called me up and said, "Jim, I'd like to talk to you." So, I went over to talk to him. And he said, "I'm only going to be the Program Manager for one more flight. And after that—" or the lunar landing. "As soon as the lunar landing takes place," he says, "I'm going to leave here." He said, "I've been offered a job as the [NASA] Deputy Administrator. And we can't talk about that now, because it's a political appointee job" and all that junk. "But," he said, "I'd like to have you replace me as the Program Manager." Hmm. I said, "Well, let me think about that. That's more interesting than some of these other things."And so, I went home and talked to my wife about it. She suggested I fly the Apollo 13 flight. And anyway, I thought about it for a long time. And finally I decided that that's what I wanted to do. So, I went and told him, "Yeah, I'd do that." And so ... I'd be the Program Manager. But we couldn't — but we had to disguise it in a way that it wasn't obvious. And so, I took a job which we created called the Deputy Program Manager for Lunar Exploration, or something like that. So, in that job then I led the team that sort of redesigned the command module and lunar module to do the lunar exploration stuff that we did on 15, 16, and 17. And then as soon as we landed on Apollo 11, we were going to make the transition. And then because of the political appointee stuff, it took — it dragged on and on and on; and finally George and I decided that, "Look, you know, if I'm going to do this job, I've got to do it now! I'm not going to do it — I'm not going to start it last." So, he said, "Yeah," so he went and did something else on a temp — on an interim basis and I took over the Program for 12 through 16. |
Mike Dixon Member Posts: 1397 From: Kew, Victoria, Australia Registered: May 2003
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posted 02-04-2017 05:36 PM
Thanks Robert. Story now sorted. |
Kite Member Posts: 831 From: Northampton UK Registered: Nov 2009
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posted 02-05-2017 03:28 AM
Thanks too Robert. That appears to be the version in 'In the Shadow of the Moon' by Francis French and Colin Burgess.I think the very blunt answer at Autographica Jim McDivitt gave as to working with Alan Shepard on an Apollo mission was probably to a hypothetical question. |
Philip Member Posts: 5952 From: Brussels, Belgium Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 02-05-2017 06:50 AM
Waaw... Ed's photo initiated an interesting look at the background story. Thanks for sharing! |
Tom Member Posts: 1597 From: New York Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 02-05-2017 07:19 AM
Based on the fact that McDivitt was offered command of Apollo 13, there's a good chance he would have gotten Mitchell from the Apollo 10 backup crew to join him.Does anyone know if Shepard selected Roosa for 13/14? If not, Apollo 13 could very well have been McDivitt - Roosa - Mitchell. |
Mike Dixon Member Posts: 1397 From: Kew, Victoria, Australia Registered: May 2003
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posted 02-05-2017 08:04 PM
That would have been one short turnaround ... March 69 to April 70. |
Tom Member Posts: 1597 From: New York Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 02-06-2017 09:15 AM
It sure would, but not as quick as Tom Stafford (Gemini 6 to Gemini 9)... 6 months. |
Fra Mauro Member Posts: 1587 From: Bethpage, N.Y. Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 02-06-2017 01:33 PM
We should have a contest for a caption for that photo!As for a McDivitt lunar mission crew — it would depend on who is available but the CDR would have a say in the selection (not the final one, i.e., Cernan and Apollo 17). |
Tom Member Posts: 1597 From: New York Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 02-06-2017 04:55 PM
I read somewhere that McDivitt wanted to fly with his Apollo 9 crew mates. With Scott already selected for Apollo 12 BU CDR and Apollo 15 prime CDR, that left Rusty Schweickart.I wonder if Schweickart would have been eligible to fly as Apollo 13 CMP with McDivitt and Mitchell? |
Fra Mauro Member Posts: 1587 From: Bethpage, N.Y. Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 02-06-2017 06:08 PM
The story goes that NASA was reluctant to give Schweickart another flight since he had such a bad bout of space sickness. |
Jonnyed Member Posts: 396 From: Dumfries, VA, USA Registered: Aug 2014
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posted 02-06-2017 07:35 PM
Anyone know, was this photo snapped by a colleague or was this taken by an official NASA photographer?Beautifully candid shot. |
heng44 Member Posts: 3387 From: Netherlands Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 02-08-2017 04:34 AM
I think only NASA photographers were allowed in Mission Control during flights. |
carmelo Member Posts: 1047 From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 02-08-2017 08:39 AM
Is true that the USAF offered to McDivitt to fly on MOL? |
Rick Mulheirn Member Posts: 4167 From: England Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 02-08-2017 08:40 AM
Most likely Andrew "Pat" Patnesky. Resident Mission Control photographer who mastered shooting in low light: in the days before digital trickery. I have seen several clips of Mission Control in which he can be seen moving between consoles, camera in hand.I had the pleasure of meeting Pat back in 1981. A real character. |
Kite Member Posts: 831 From: Northampton UK Registered: Nov 2009
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posted 02-08-2017 01:04 PM
quote: Originally posted by carmelo: Is true that the USAF offered to McDivitt to fly on MOL?
From "In the Shadow of the Moon" by Francis French and Colin Burgess on page 358: Moving into Apollo management had not been the only post-mission option for Jim McDivitt. The Air Force was interested in him running a component of their proposed manned space program, called the Manned Orbiting Laboratory (MOL). After talking to some trusted colleagues, however, he was convinced that the Air Force would never follow through on its manned spaceflight plans and would abandon them as they had done with the earlier Dyna-Soar program. He was later proved correct; the MOL program was abruptly canceled. This suggests that he wouldn't have flown in it. |
Jonnyed Member Posts: 396 From: Dumfries, VA, USA Registered: Aug 2014
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posted 02-08-2017 08:06 PM
quote: Originally posted by Rick Mulheirn: Most likely Andrew "Pat" Patnesky.
Thanks for the tip on NASA photographer Andrew "Pat" Patnesky. Here's a link to a photo/caption on pg. 4 of a space journal concerning Patnesky's retirement in 1997.Patnesky had 58 years of government service and arrived at JSC when it was still a cow pasture! I love these stories, great guys all coming together for great missions. Again, terrific photo of McDivitt. |
ColinBurgess Member Posts: 2031 From: Sydney, Australia Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 02-08-2017 09:49 PM
Without searching through my files, I seem to recall there was quite a spread on Pat in an issue of the long-defunct "Space Flight News" many years ago. |
SaturnV Member Posts: 24 From: Fowler, Ohio, USA Registered: Sep 2013
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posted 02-15-2017 03:02 PM
quote: Originally posted by Mike Dixon: ...no way would I have played second fiddle as a LM pilot.
Really? You realize "second fiddle" means... YOU WALK ON THE MOON!!! Heck, I'd play 15th fiddle, I'd be the guy that cleans up the bathroom after the fiddlers are done playing if it gives me a chance to walk on the moon!! |
onesmallstep Member Posts: 1310 From: Staten Island, New York USA Registered: Nov 2007
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posted 02-16-2017 03:13 PM
quote: Originally posted by ColinBurgess: ...the long-defunct "Space Flight News" many years ago.
Ah, yes - Space Flight News. Much sought after and read, before the internet - and collectSPACE. |
Mike Dixon Member Posts: 1397 From: Kew, Victoria, Australia Registered: May 2003
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posted 02-16-2017 04:04 PM
Still have them all in mint condition. Was a great magazine. Had an inglorious end as we know, but a great way to keep in touch with current developments and history. |