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Author
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Topic: Astronauts and cosmonauts' favorite aircraft
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David C
Member Posts: 1015
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 05-07-2018 09:38 PM
  
Just for fun, I thought it would be interesting to find out what the favourite aircraft (helicopters or airplanes) were of astronauts (and cosmonauts). Of course it's very subjective since they can only pick from what they've flown. I think the most interesting answers will probably be for the former professional pilots since they'll have the largest range to pick from, but all comers welcome. I'll start off: - Neil Armstrong: Grumman F8F Bearcat
- Joe Engle: North American X-15
- "Hoot" Gibson: MiG-21 (Early light weight versions, I think, because I don't remember if I asked him what his favourite aircraft was, or his favourite jet.)
- Story Musgrave: Northrop T-38
- Deke Slayton: English Electric P1B Lightning
Anyone know any others? |
SkyMan1958
Member Posts: 867
From: CA.
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 05-07-2018 11:19 PM
Dick Gordon broke it down into a variety of types: - Propeller: F8F Bearcat
- Subsonic jet: F86 Sabre
- Supersonic jet: F4 Phantom II
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ColinBurgess
Member Posts: 2031
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 05-08-2018 01:04 AM
I asked Gene Cernan this question many years back, and he said without hesitation the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk. |
crash
Member Posts: 318
From: West Sussex, England
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 05-08-2018 02:15 PM
Charlie Duke told me during a long drive that his favourite aircraft was the F-104 Starfighter. Take off roll, rotate, level off, accelerate and then pull back. Straight up and no stopping! |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3120
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 05-08-2018 05:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SkyMan1958:
Subsonic jet: F86 Sabre
Surely the F86 Sabre was transsonic? |
Jurg Bolli
Member Posts: 977
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 05-08-2018 07:34 PM
No, it was not. |
Philip
Member Posts: 5952
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 05-09-2018 10:16 AM
For test-pilot Neil Armstrong it must have been the hypersonic X-15 in which he flew seven missions? |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3120
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 05-09-2018 06:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jurg Bolli:
No, it was not.
Look at page 46 of "Two Sides of the Moon" by Dave Scott and Alexei Leonov. Scott describes how he was one of a number of pilots who got a special "Mach 1 pin" from North American, makers of the F86 Sabre, for breaking the sound barrier in a Sabre. Does that not make it "transsonic"? |
SkyMan1958
Member Posts: 867
From: CA.
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 05-09-2018 06:48 PM
It depends on your definition of transonic. Technically you could get the plane above Mach 1 in a dive. It was a dangerous maneuver as the plane was not designed for that regime. The handling characteristics were such that the pilot did not have full control. The plane was designed for the high subsonic regime. Personally I'm willing to accept Dick Gordon's description of it as a subsonic aircraft, which is the speed a pilot, even a test pilot, would normally be flying the aircraft at. |
Jurg Bolli
Member Posts: 977
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 05-09-2018 09:28 PM
I may have been wrong. Wikipedia has transonic as close to the speed of sound, or between Mach 0.8 and 1 as a convention.The Sabre was not, as mentioned, designed to fly at or past Mach 1, the Super Sabre F-100 was the first one to fly beyond Mach 1in level flight. Even in WW2, some planes had compressibility problems in dives, but they were by no means supersonic, and the controls became very stiff. But as mentioned in the previous post, I guess it all depends on the definition of transonic. |
David C
Member Posts: 1015
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 05-10-2018 03:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Philip:
For test-pilot Neil Armstrong it must have been the hypersonic X-15 in which he flew seven missions?
No I don't believe so. I stated the F8F from memory, and whilst the tone of various Armstrong interviews supports this, I'm still looking for the precise reference where I read it. quote:
Originally posted by Jurg Bolli:
But as mentioned in the previous post, I guess it all depends on the definition of transonic.
Transonic has a precise aerodynamic meaning. It is the freestream air velocity range between when the local air velocity over some point on the body in question first reaches the local speed of sound (critical Mach number), and when the local flow over the entire body is supersonic.Pilot's speak less pedantically than aerodynamicists. By a transonic airplane they usually mean one that can exceed Mach 1 in a dive, but not level flight. I'm not sure it's accurate to say that the F-86 was not designed to fly at supersonic speed. It was designed to delay compressibility problems and fly as fast as possible - in a dive. North American design engineers Ed Horkey, Larry Greene and "Stormy" Storms together with chief test pilot "Wheaties" Welch all belived it would be supersonic in a dive. They were right. The first operational jet airplane to achieve supersonic speed in level flight was the Soviet MiG-19, not the F-100. |
Jurg Bolli
Member Posts: 977
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 05-10-2018 07:21 PM
I was only talking about American planes, not Russian ones when I made the F-100 remark.The Me 262 had swept wings for exactly the same purpose, and Guido Mutke claimed to have gone beyond Mach 1 in a dive in that plane. I do not know if the F-86 went beyond Mach 1 in a dive. |
David C
Member Posts: 1015
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 05-11-2018 12:11 AM
Trouble is there is no corroborating evidence for that claim. Mutke did not have instrumentation capable of indicating it and general professional opinion is that the
Me-262 was incapable. quote:
Originally posted by Jurg Bolli:
I do not know if the F-86 went beyond Mach 1 in a dive.
It did routinely, starting with the first prototype, the XP-86. There is also evidence that it may have beaten the X-1 to it.Anyway, back to the thread. |
Dirk
Member Posts: 933
From: Belgium
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 05-11-2018 04:11 PM
Sergei Krikalyov was member of Russian aerobatic flying teams. He had his own Yak50, that was sold years ago to a Belgian pilot.Was later homebased in the Netherlands. |
Aztecdoug
Member Posts: 1405
From: Huntington Beach
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 05-11-2018 05:14 PM
If my memory serves me right I believe Wally Schirra said once at a public event in Palm Springs that his favorites were the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk and the Grumman F8F Bearcat. |
Wehaveliftoff
Member Posts: 2343
From:
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 05-12-2018 01:04 AM
David, Phillip, whether it was a Bearcat or whatever, here is a picture of Neil Armstrong holding a model of a plane he seemed to be quite fond of. Neil Armstrong holds the F9F-2 Panther model he sponsored for the Cold War Gallery, at the Washington Navy Yard. The Panther is a replica of one Armstrong flew in the Korean War, and was hand built by Michael McLeod. The Cold War Gallery is the latest expansion to the National Museum of the United States Navy. |
David C
Member Posts: 1015
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 05-12-2018 05:48 PM
Nice shot. I'm sure Armstrong had an emotional bond with the F9F-2, as people do with a machine that they survived being shot at in. That said, he stressed several times that it was a significantly flawed plane. |
hlbjr
Member Posts: 475
From: Delray Beach Florida USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 05-13-2018 10:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SkyMan1958:
It depends on your definition of transonic. Technically you could get the plane above Mach 1 in a dive. It was a dangerous maneuver as the plane was not designed for that regime. The handling characteristics were such that the pilot did not have full control.
My Dad had 63 combat missions in the F86F and he, as well as all of his squadron mates, busted Mach 1. I wouldn't describe going supersonic in a Sabre as dangerous as many pilots did it. The F86F had a movable horizontal stabilizer which increased stability in all regimes. Also, I personally heard Ed Horky, one of the NAA engineers who designed the Sabre, as he described the XP-86 busting the sound barrier before the Bell X-1. The XP-86 was in a dive when it did it but it was confirmed by theodolite measurements. Ed said that everyone at Muroc that day heard the boom. Unfortunately Ed, my dad, and Dad's fellow squadron mates from the Korean War have all passed on. Just because the Sabre couldn't go Mach 1 in level flight did not mean it was dangerous to be a "Mach Buster". The Sabre was tough and was a true gem. It was my Dad's favorite jet of them all and judging by the hundreds of men (and some women) who belonged to the "Sabre Pilots Association" (now inactive) I'd say that affection for the F-86 was shared by most. |
Skylon
Member Posts: 274
From:
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted 05-15-2018 06:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Aztecdoug:
If my memory serves me right I believe Wally Schirra said once at a public event in Palm Springs that his favorites were the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk and the Grumman F8F Bearcat.
To follow up, I was in a Wikipedia hole and following his Mercury flight Schirra commented that Sigma 7 had displaced the F8F Bearcat as his favorite "aircraft."I am noticing a lot of love for that plane in this thread. |
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