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Author
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Topic: Astronaut Cliques
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Duke Of URL
Member Posts: 1316
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 04-10-2006 03:22 PM
   
I'm not looking for dirt here, but I'm curious about groups of M-G-A Astronauts who hung together.I know about Conrad, Gordon and Bean being a real trio. And I read Walt Cunningham's book about how he got on particularly well with Rusty Schweikart (!) and a couple of others. Deke Slayton said Gus Grissom was his best friend. But were there other groups that bonded? Each of the M7 said they had a deep connection, and other Astronauts referred to them as a group (the "old heads"). But who else was particularly close to one or more of his collegues? I also know you wouldn't want to be stuck in an elevator with Gene Cernan and Buzz Aldrin (Jim McDivitt and Cernan, either), but that's not what this thread is supposed to be about..... |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3161
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 04-10-2006 09:33 PM
Andy Chaikin does a nice job talking about Bean, Anders, Cunningham, Schweickart as a close group trying to work out the office pecking order... |
Duke Of URL
Member Posts: 1316
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 04-10-2006 10:04 PM
You're absolutely correct. And didn't people think it odd that Cunningham and Schweikart became buddies, since they were somewhat opposites in temperment and outlook? I wonder if these guys are close today. It'd be great if they were.I read that Bill Anders tried for years to get together with Frank Borman until one day, out of the blue, Borman called and said "Let's get together". Are there any other stories like this? Are Lunar crews - those that survive - close? |
OPOS
Member Posts: 200
From: Inverness, FL
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 04-10-2006 10:14 PM
Talking to Richard Gordon once, about "From The Earth To The Moon", I said something to the effect of "If the story they told about you guys (A12) were true...." He said, without hesitation "They were".Further talk with him had him expand a little more, saying that while the dramatic elements of the show made things appear a little different, the tone of the show was dead on. Sounds like those A12 guys really were close! Tom Edmonds |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3161
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 04-10-2006 11:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Duke Of URL:
You're absolutely correct. And didn't people think it odd that Cunningham and Schweikart became buddies, since they were somewhat opposites in temperment and outlook?
Far more in common than you'd think - although very different in politics. Rather amusing, in fact, that they sat Rusty to the left of Walt in New Jersey (and, thus, Walt was to the right of Rusty...) |
Duke Of URL
Member Posts: 1316
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 04-11-2006 01:25 PM
Are Rusty S and Walt C still close?And, if Ms. Stoever is reading this thread, are John Glenn and the Dynamic Pioneer still pals, and with Wally S too? |
KC Stoever
Member Posts: 1012
From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 04-11-2006 03:03 PM
Yep. Still pals. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 04-11-2006 03:27 PM
quote:
I also know you wouldn't want to be stuck in an elevator with Gene Cernan and Buzz Aldrin (Jim McDivitt and Cernan, either)
I don't know if I've ever read a good account for the reasons of the friction between Cernan and Aldrin...or Cernan and McDivitt. I have seen Buzz describe the Gemini 12 mission in a way that makes is sound like "EVA is really quite simple as long as you THINK about it first." I'm not sure if that is meant as a not-so-subtle jab at Cernan's difficult Gemini 9 EVA...or whether it was the source of their friction. Also, I've never heard any account of why McDivitt and Cernan didn't get along...but instead only heard of the results (McDivitt leaving after Cernan is given Apollo 17). Maybe it's a good question to submit to Novaspace for their McDivitt interview. (JUST KIDDING!  ) Perhaps the explanation is just as simple as the fact that sometimes two people just rub each other the wrong way. On a different note, are there examples of any astronauts who were universally liked by all of their peers? Pete Conrad, perhaps? Dick Gordon? Maybe Jim Lovell? Lovell was the only other person beyond Armstrong and Collins to fly with Buzz...and they seemed to get along just fine. Or was there such a level of competitiveness that no one astronaut was universally liked within the program (especially when that astronaut had a prime crew seat and you didn't)? |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1522
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 04-11-2006 04:53 PM
I got the very strong impression in Buzz Aldrin's "Men from Earth" that he didn't like Frank Borman at all. He mentions making a suggestion to Borman before one of his flights, and Borman snapping back, "Dammit, Aldrin, you are always trying to screw up other people's flights. Well, I'll be damned if you're gonna screw up mine." Later, he describes Borman snapping at Bill Anders for taking communion before Apollo 8, something to the effect, "Are you going to take communion every thirty seconds on this flight?" |
Duke Of URL
Member Posts: 1316
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 04-11-2006 05:00 PM
From everything I've read it's difficult to believe anybody disliked Jim Lovell, Wally Schirra, Pete Conrad or Scott Carpenter. These guys did yeoman duty in the Good Guy department. John Glenn was a class act, but he rubbed a couple of people wrong, again from what I've read. He and Al Shepard had a thing and I believe Deke Slayton had his moments of irritation with JG.I read that Jim McDivitt thought Cernan was a hot dog and sub-standard pilot who would screw up Apollo 17. These statements were made around the time of Cernan's helicopter crash. I think Cernan and Aldrin simply didn't get along and comments about one being like an angry stork or an EVA being easy if an astronaut just thought were just shots across a bow. I think Cernan was more comfortable, let's say, with stick-and-rudder types like Shepard and Slayton than with intellectuals such as Aldrin. I also wonder if there was an Air Force/Navy thing going on with those two in particular and NASA in general. And, from what I've read, Frank Borman wasn't a bad guy as much as focused on the mission at hand and didn't appreciate diversions of any sort from the plan. It may have made him an exacting commander, but the way he stood by his wife pretty much eliminates him from any SOB category, right? [This message has been edited by Duke Of URL (edited April 11, 2006).] |
Tom
Member Posts: 1597
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 04-11-2006 05:27 PM
After original Gemini 9 astronauts See and Bassett died, Gemini 10 back-up crew Lovell and Aldrin moved up one flight to back up the new Gemini 9 crew of Stafford and Cernan.
Later that year, Cernan swapped roles with Aldrin, backing him up on Gemini 12. If there were any problems with them, it must have come after the Gemini program was over. I doubt these two could have worked so closely together, and not get along. |
KC Stoever
Member Posts: 1012
From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 04-11-2006 07:50 PM
I remember an evening at the Bormans'--all four Carpenter kids present with their parents, ca. 1966--I remember at the door being alert to my parents' signals. I saw that my parents liked the Bormans--really liked them. So I liked them too. Always will. On edit: Oh, and the Bormans fed us too--no mean feat. [This message has been edited by KC Stoever (edited April 11, 2006).] |
Duke Of URL
Member Posts: 1316
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 04-11-2006 08:32 PM
See? I knew Borman was a good guy. |
KC Stoever
Member Posts: 1012
From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 04-11-2006 08:35 PM
I think Cernan was more comfortable, let's say, with stick-and-rudder types like Shepard and Slayton than with intellectuals such as Aldrin. I also wonder if there was an Air Force/Navy thing going on with those two in particular and NASA in general.Cannot add to discussion about Cernan but must comment on the pairing of Al and Deke with "stick and rudder" thinking. Al and Deke may have found common cause, ca. 1962. But it had little if anything to do with stick and rudder flying. [This message has been edited by KC Stoever (edited April 11, 2006).] |
KC Stoever
Member Posts: 1012
From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 04-11-2006 08:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Duke Of URL:
See? I knew Borman was a good guy.
Well, yes, truly, to the extent you feed four ravenous children, and their parents, without considering one of them might testify to the kindness forty years later. |
Duke Of URL
Member Posts: 1316
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 04-11-2006 09:29 PM
You're lucky you got fed. Whenever we were invited places, our hosts would lock my brother and I in the cellar with a slab 'o' raw meat. At least on our second visit.How did your folks keep their composure? They had to feed you every night! |
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