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Author
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Topic: 'Mount Rushmore' for US space history
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BMckay Member Posts: 3638 From: MA, USA Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 07-18-2021 09:07 AM
If you were creating a "Mount Rushmore" of American space history, who would you put on it and why? Only four spots are available, just like the real one. To get it started: - Alan Shepard - First American and Apollo 14
- John Young - Gemini, Apollo and shuttle
- Eileen Collins - First women shuttle commander
- Neil Armstrong - no explanation needed
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SpaceAholic Member Posts: 4894 From: Sierra Vista, Arizona Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-18-2021 09:20 AM
Alan Shepard, John Glenn, Neil Armstrong, and the first Mars (interplanetary) mission commander.Shuttle program, while an interesting near-term technical milestone in the grand scheme of things, will not be construed as one of the most significant (space) achievements in American history. |
Larry McGlynn Member Posts: 1343 From: Boston, MA Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 07-18-2021 10:05 AM
Are you only allowing astronauts? And seeing history will continue to evolve, then lets cap it as of today. I would add Sally Ride to the mountain as my fourth astronaut. If including ground support personnel then here are two good additions from MCC and NASA Admin: Chris Kraft and George Low. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 46662 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-18-2021 10:37 AM
If the idea is astronauts-only, then I would say those who shaped the U.S. program to what it is today are: - John Glenn - defined the "right stuff," and then led NASA toward becoming science-driven after the space race was won.
- John Young - trailblazed in space but more importantly, shaped the NASA safety culture on Earth.
- Sally Ride - redefined the "right stuff" but more importantly, led NASA's direction after tragedies and in the face of floundering goals.
- Peggy Whitson - redefined the role of an astronaut both in space and on the ground.
It seems odd to omit Alan Shepard and Neil Armstrong from the list, but their impact was on history, rather than shaping the course of events to come.If open to everyone who contributed to the U.S. space program, then: - Dwight Eisenhower, George Low, James Webb and Lori Garver
I debated Wernher von Braun, but there is no way to balance his personal history to merit him on a national monument. And I recognize Garver's inclusion may be controversial (to some), but commercial spaceflight represents a major change to the way NASA does business. |
BMckay Member Posts: 3638 From: MA, USA Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 07-18-2021 11:34 AM
Let's just use astronauts. Keep the talk going. There are no wrong answers. |
Blackarrow Member Posts: 3340 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 07-18-2021 02:27 PM
Agreed — just astronauts. (There are only U.S. presidents on Mount Rushmore!)A hard choice between Al Shepard and John Glenn, but on balance, as first American in space, as a chief of the Astronaut Office and as a Moonwalker, Shepard gets my vote. Thus: - Alan Shepard: see above;
- Frank Borman: leader of the first expedition to leave Earth and visit another world - should be a shoo-in;
- Neil Armstrong: no justification necessary;
- John Young: the astronauts' astronaut, spanning Gemini, Apollo, and shuttle.
Sorry, but the Golden Age ended in April, 1981 at the latest, and probably 1972. No disrespect intended to the many fine astronauts who flew after STS-1, but that was/is, if you like, a Silver Age. Expand the spaces to six and I would include Eileen Collins, but the rules say four only! |
SmallSpace15 New Member Posts: 2 From: Registered: May 2021
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posted 07-19-2021 02:35 PM
- Alan Shepard - First American in space
- John Glenn - First American to orbit
- Neil Armstrong - First man on the Moon
- John Young - One of our most experienced spacefarers and helped usher in a new era of space flight
There are others that I would like to add (Grissom, Aldrin, Slayton, Borman, etc.), but I limited myself to the truly, truly iconic astronauts. |
SkyMan1958 Member Posts: 1074 From: CA. Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 07-19-2021 04:46 PM
The names mentioned are all fine by me, and I realize that we're only talking astronauts, but not having Robert Goddard on there seems egregious to me. |
Larry McGlynn Member Posts: 1343 From: Boston, MA Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 07-19-2021 06:17 PM
Here is four more candidates for the rock. - Moe Howard, CDR of 1st crew to land on Venus
- Larry Fine, XO of 1st crew to land on Venus
- Lou Costello, 1st crew to land on Mars?
- Bud Abbott, 1st crew to land on Mars?
Curly Joe didn't make the cut. No Curly, no Three Stooges. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 46662 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-19-2021 07:20 PM
The "Mount Rushmore" question is always an interesting one because it pits "firsts" against lasting contributions as a qualifier for who should be included. Astronauts, in general, are somewhat one-dimensional when it comes to what lasting contributions they made to the space program. This is, in part, because NASA from the start has drilled in the idea that any astronaut could fly on any mission and do just as good a job. They are interchangeable. (Of course, that is not exactly true, but it is how NASA has approached its corps.) Presidents (at least some presidents) are multi-dimensional, which is why the four chosen for the real Mount Rushmore was based on the artist's own opinion. Trying to decide on the list of four by committee might have been impossible. |
RobertB Member Posts: 227 From: Israel Registered: Nov 2012
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posted 07-20-2021 11:40 AM
quote: Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: Peggy Whitson - redefined the role of an astronaut both in space and on the ground.
Can you elaborate on this please? |
Jim Behling Member Posts: 1648 From: Cape Canaveral, FL Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 07-20-2021 12:53 PM
Non-astronaut list: - Robert Goddard
- Theodore Von Karman
- Bernard Schriever
- Dwight Eisenhower
- Honor Mention: Wernher von Braun
The impact of these men started before NASA existed. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 46662 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-20-2021 01:31 PM
quote: Originally posted by RobertB: Can you elaborate on this please?
In space, Peggy Whitson not only broke record over record, but she set and broke the pace for how much work a single astronaut could achieve on an expedition. She consistently completed the science assigned to her to the point that NASA, at times, struggled to keep her busy with things to do.On the ground, as chief astronaut, Whitson set new rules for who would remain in the astronaut office. She established that if you were not proficient in robotics, EVA and science, then you could not remain an active member of the corps. |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 3268 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 07-20-2021 02:34 PM
I just can't keep this topic only to astronauts since there are hundreds of non-astronaut individuals that have paved the way for manned and unmanned space travel in so many key areas.This topic is indeed a tough one to tackle, however, in considering the world's top aerospace leaders and pioneers of spaceflight during the last 100 years or so, here are just a few highlight names; Hermann Oberth, Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, Robert Goddard, Wernher von Braun, Sergei Korolev, Hugh Dryden, James Van Allen, William Pickering, James Webb, Theodore von Karmin, Don and Harry Guggenheim, Chris Kraft, Clearance Johnson, Bob Gilruth, Max Faget, Gene Kranz, George Mueller, U.S. Presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson, George Low, San Langley, Bill Boeing, Walt Williams, James McDonnell, George Low, Tom Kelly, Don Douglas, William Rockwell, Ernst Stuhlinger, Kurt Debus, George Clayley, Robert Collier, Elmer Sperry, Bill Moffett, John Houbolt, Tom O'Paine, John Paul Strapp, Walter Dornberger, Bruce Medaris, George Marshall, B. Schriever, Willy Ley, H. N. Toftoy, Eberhard Rees, Stark Draper, Rocco Petrone, Hans Gruene, Guenter Wendt, Theo Poppel, Shorty Powers, Jack King, and Hugh Harris, Abe Silverstein, Bob Gray, Walt Kapryan, Elon Musk, Richard Branson, Jeff Bezos, along with so, so many others not mentioned. |
Blackarrow Member Posts: 3340 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 07-20-2021 03:39 PM
There must be a lot of politicians answering this challenge: given a clear premise limited to astronauts, many contributors have simply chosen to change the premise. |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 3268 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 07-20-2021 03:49 PM
When I first saw this posting topic, I had seen non-astronaut names in more than one post (3-4 actually). And for the record, I am certainly not a politician, for sure.As for top U.S. astronaut selections, I would go with Shepard, Glenn, Young, White, Conrad, Borman, Lovell, Armstrong, Scott, Cernan, and perhaps Crippen, Ride, McCandless, C. Walker, Sullivan, Musgrave, Thagard, Whitson, Hoot Gibson, Christina Koch, Hadfield, and maybe even several shuttle AHOF inductees (many as record breakers). Might want to include Grissom, Schirra, and Slayton as well. |
oly Member Posts: 1237 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 07-20-2021 10:57 PM
Restricted to American Astronauts, I have difficulty reducing the list to four. Considering people who achieved significant firsts or feats that had not been done before, and the unknown list of what could go wrong. I offer the following list. - Alan Shepard for being the first American to ride a converted ballistic missile to the edge of space. While there were others in line for the same seat, Shepard was the first.
- John Glenn for being the first to orbit the Earth.
- John Young for being part of the first Gemini crew, the First to solo the moon, and the first STS launch and flight.
- Neil Armstrong for his pilot skill and taking that first one small step.
- Bruce McCandless for making the first untethered spacewalk.
While there have been many other firsts in American spaceflight, many of which are significant in their way, each of these firsts pushed spaceflight further. If forced to drop one name, I would drop Shepard. |
Blackarrow Member Posts: 3340 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 07-21-2021 10:41 AM
Bryan (BMcKay), instigator of this debate, has wisely pointed out that "there are no wrong answers" but I would suggest that "longevity of achievement" should be a major selection criterion. In, say, 200 years, how would the choice of a specific individual be viewed?The obvious choice who would clearly pass the test is Neil Armstrong. I also suggest that in 200 years, anyone who still rejoices in the fact that the United States was a land built by pioneers would understand the inclusion of the pioneer who successfully led humanity's first expedition to leave the Earth and visit another celestial body. (Frank Borman always said he did it to beat the Russians, but that takes nothing from the wider achievement, and there are those who suggest that Apollo 8 was actually the most important mission of Project Apollo. On that, I offer no opinion.) Sorry, but I just don't think John Glenn makes the cut. The wave of national pride which is obvious from 1962 newsreels will not last 200 years. Future observers would surely ask: "Was he the first human in space?" (No). "Was he the first American in space?" (No). Whether Alan Shepard's achievement as "first American in space" would be considered enough on its own is an interesting question, but of course he was the one member of that first group of 7 pioneers who also commanded a lunar landing mission. John Young's selection requires a little more historical knowledge in our observer of 2221, but I suggest that that observer, on comparing Young with other potential choices for "Mount Rushmore 2" would not find Young less worthy than the alternative options. | |
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