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Author
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Topic: A man who flew in two LM's.......
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astronut
Member Posts: 969
From: South Fork, CO
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 06-27-2001 06:10 PM
   
Was just thinking today (dangerous habit) that Gene Cernan was the only man to fly in two LM's (LM4 & LM12). John Young may also have climbed into LM4 but didn't fly in it free from the CSM. Kinda adds another record to his long list. Oh well, back to aimless daydreaming. ------------------
Happy trails,
Wayne Edelman
(you-are-go-for-tli) "Take sides! Always take sides! You will sometimes be wrong, but the man who refuses to take sides must ALWAYS be wrong...let us stand up and be counted." Robert A. Heinlein |
Leon Ford
Member Posts: 309
From: Shreveport, LA, United States
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 06-27-2001 07:19 PM
On Apollo 9, ave Scott would stick his head into the LM to get a drink of water. Does that count? |
astronut
Member Posts: 969
From: South Fork, CO
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 06-27-2001 07:29 PM
Leon,
Unless he got that drink while LM3 was separate from the CSM, I'd vote no (long straw?)  . Had forgot about Scott being on A9 a flight that would have let him enter 2 LM's (LM3 & 10) though.------------------
Happy trails,
Wayne Edelman
(you-are-go-for-tli) "Take sides! Always take sides! You will sometimes be wrong, but the man who refuses to take sides must ALWAYS be wrong...let us stand up and be counted." Robert A. Heinlein |
mark plas
Member Posts: 385
From: the Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 06-28-2001 10:45 AM
Just read Flight by Chris Kraft interesting story about Cernan and McDivitt.
Am I glad they didn't follow McDivitt.Mark |
astronut
Member Posts: 969
From: South Fork, CO
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 06-28-2001 04:48 PM
Mark,
I've read the book but as I have "old fart's desease" I can't remember the passage you mention. Could you refresh my memory or give me a page number?------------------
Happy trails,
Wayne Edelman
(you-are-go-for-tli) "Take sides! Always take sides! You will sometimes be wrong, but the man who refuses to take sides must ALWAYS be wrong...let us stand up and be counted." Robert A. Heinlein |
Mike
Member Posts: 178
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Registered: May 2001
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posted 06-28-2001 10:35 PM
I think it's 346-347. Anyway, it's in the index, the first of 3 entries under McDivitt.Mike |
mark plas
Member Posts: 385
From: the Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 06-29-2001 05:27 AM
Wayne,It's about McDivitt not beeing told about the selection of Gene Cernan as commander of Apollo 17 before it went public and his ressignation because of this.
I was just wondering why McDivitt had such feelings about cernan and if he has ever changed his feelings after 17 Mark |
Mike
Member Posts: 178
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Registered: May 2001
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posted 06-29-2001 07:27 AM
Maybe it's that Air Force vs Navy pilot thing. |
Dennis Talbot
Member Posts: 172
From: Terrigal NSW Australia
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 06-29-2001 09:35 AM
I think it would have more to do with the helicopter crash that Cernan had while watching a couple of women sunbathing on a river bank. |
Mike
Member Posts: 178
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Registered: May 2001
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posted 06-29-2001 09:56 AM
Yup. That's exactly what was said in the book. I was trying to be facetious. |
Aztecdoug
Member Posts: 1405
From: Huntington Beach
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 06-29-2001 10:25 AM
Fortunately Cernan escaped with singed eyebrows and a blackened face per the book.Kraft goes on to point out Cernan's character. Gene presented Deke with the facts. Deke replied to the effect of, "Exactly when did your engine quit?" Gene came back and stated to the effect, "Maybe you didn't understand, I crashed into the water looking at girls." Deke insisted that the helicopter engine quit... So, I think the point is that Cernan was a stand up guy who did not dodge his responsibility. If something were to go wrong in space, Deke could count on getting the facts from Cernan. Of course nothing did go wrong and that is a tribute to his skills. Cernan was truthful and that is a rare commodity these days. (By the way all items in quotation are based on my 40 year old memory and are in no way supposed to be literal translations.)
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Warm Regards Douglas Henry
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
Plutarch
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WAWalsh
Member Posts: 809
From: Cortlandt Manor, NY
Registered: May 2000
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posted 06-29-2001 02:42 PM
True, but Kraft also points out in his book that Slayton failed to pass along the cause to the rest of management. I need to go back and look at Kraft's book, but I do not believe that he ever directly ties the helicopter crash to McDivitt's views. My recollection is that Kraft discusses the crash to use it as a symptom rather than the foundation for the difference of opinion. |
Ed Krutulis
Member Posts: 145
From: Plainfield, IL USA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 06-29-2001 03:13 PM
Hey Gang,Having NOT read Kraft's book yet, didn't Cernan and Dick Gordon both try to jockey for the CDR's seat on 17? I remember reading this in Cernan's book. Safe 4th of July!!!!!! |
mark plas
Member Posts: 385
From: the Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 06-30-2001 07:03 AM
I am sure it has something to do with McDivitt wanting to see Gordon fly on 17 Why?
Maybe because he build an good relation with Gordon when he was backup of apollo 9.
Kraft wrote in his book that McDivitt never liked cernan now this chopper accident of cernan was in 1971 so I don't think it's the only cause of McDivitt not wanting cernan for Apollo 17
Dick Gordon was also Navy so that was not the point i thinkmark |
Tom
Member Posts: 1597
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 06-30-2001 02:59 PM
I remember reading that the astronauts were forming sides when it came time to pick the crew for the last Moon landing (Apollo 17).
The big supporters for Cernan were:
Shepard
Stafford
YoungThose supporting Gordon were:
McDivitt
Scott
Conrad I don't think it was an Air Force vs Navy thing.
It seems that opinions were made by flying with or backing up the individual. |
mark plas
Member Posts: 385
From: the Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 07-01-2001 05:34 AM
Tom,I think cernan was very lucky to have Shepard on his side and than you can say that Slayton was on his side also.
besides Cernan had flown the LM on 10 and was with the three mission rotation in mind the guy to fly the mission. Mark |
astronut
Member Posts: 969
From: South Fork, CO
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 07-01-2001 08:52 AM
If the rotation had followed to form Cernan would have been the CM pilot for A17. He was offered the LM pilot slot for A16, but turned it down for the chance to actually pilot & land LM12. Cernan is a class guy, but so is Dick Gordon. Either would have been a fine choice. Let's remember that Joe Engle got screwed too when they scrapped A18, replacing Engle with Schmitt for A17. Landing inside of Copernicous would have been neat too.------------------
Happy trails,
Wayne Edelman
(you-are-go-for-tli) "Take sides! Always take sides! You will sometimes be wrong, but the man who refuses to take sides must ALWAYS be wrong...let us stand up and be counted." Robert A. Heinlein |
mark plas
Member Posts: 385
From: the Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 07-01-2001 02:54 PM
Wayne,With three mission rotation I mean backup commander of 14 becomes commander of 17.
Gordon would have been a good commander but Cernan had already experience with the LM and with an scientist as LM pilot this was very handy.
I find it a pity that apollo didn't land at Tycho ,Copernicus would have been great also Mark |
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