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Author Topic:   Apollo space science and mechanics
flight_plan
Member

Posts: 58
From: Lincs
Registered: Apr 2009

posted 04-27-2009 12:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for flight_plan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I consider myself reasonably bright and an ex-engineer who can fault find to a high level, but struggle sometimes with this space science/mechanics stuff especially Apollo and the moon landings. For example:

I do a lot of photography and if film is the wrong temperature it can crack, discolour (reciprocity failure springs to mind), etc. How is that on the moon we had temperatures of plus 250 and minus 250 from sun to shade and yet the photos look fine. Is it that no moisture is present?

When you spacewalk at 17,000 mph, on an umbilical cord or not, I presume you are also travelling at 17,000 mph or would get left behind?

Also, when a command module slows down to take in a lunar orbit I presume it had the engine facing the direction of travel or did thrusters do this somehow?

When the Lunar Module was extracted from the third stage, they were parted so the third stage could be shoved off in another non collision direction. If you are travelling at 25,000 miles per hour how is this achieved? How does third stage go sideways to move it away, then accelerated to hit the moon or go where ever?

Finally, a service/command module is headed for Earth at 25,000 mph and the command module lets go of its back end and at great speed manages to turn around so its bottom is pointing towards earth for a fiery re-entry. How can it turn around without an engine or again is this the thrusters doing the twisting?

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 43576
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-27-2009 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by flight_plan:
How is that on the moon we had temperatures of plus 250 and minus 250 from sun to shade and yet the photos look fine.
Clavius base offers the answer, Environment: Heat.
...the temperature of the lunar surface (i.e., rocks and dust) as quoted by NASA has nothing to do with the equilibrium temperature reached by other objects exposed to sunlight in the lunar environment. Since the film magazine was covered with polished aluminum it would have absorbed very little radiant energy from the sun. Further, Hasselblad confirms that additional shield plates were added to the Apollo magazines to enhance their thermal insulative properties.
quote:
When you spacewalk at 17,000 mph, on an umbilical cord or not, I presume you are also travelling at 17,000 mph or would get left behind?
Newton's First Law states:
An object at rest tends to stay at rest and an object in motion tends to stay in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.
A person traveling in a spacecraft moving at 17,000 mph, would continue moving at 17,000 mph upon stepping outside of that spacecraft unless a force acted to change his/her velocity. As low Earth orbit is a near vacuum, it would take a very long time for the traces of the atmosphere to act upon the astronaut. (Likewise, if you fall out of a car moving at 60 mph, you continue moving at 60 mph until the air pressure and then friction of the road slows you down.)

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 43576
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-27-2009 12:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by flight_plan:
Also, when a command module slows down to take in a lunar orbit I presume it had the engine facing the direction of travel or did thrusters do this somehow?
Jim Lovell explained how they entered orbit in his book, "Lost Moon" (later retitled "Apollo 13").
In order to overcome the free-return slingshot, the spacecraft would have to rotate 180 degrees and then, facing rump-forward, fire the service propulsion engine, with its 22,500 pounds of trust, until the craft slowed just enough to allow the moon's gravitational field to take hold.
The craft was rotated using its reaction control thrusters.
quote:
How does third stage go sideways to move it away, then accelerated to hit the moon or go where ever?
The spent third stage, known as the SIV-B, did not move; rather the Apollo Command and Service Module (CSM) was maneuvered away from the stage by performing a burn with the same SPS engine used later to perform the lunar orbit insertion.

The SIV-B meanwhile, continued traveling along the path it was already on (Newton's First Law again). If that path intersected the Moon, it would eventually impact the lunar surface as a result of gravity pulling it in.

quote:
How can it turn around without an engine or again is this the thrusters doing the twisting?
Quoting W. David Woods' "How Apollo Flew To The Moon":
The CMP maneuvered the spacecraft to an attitude that put the heatshield forward with the crew heads-down and looking back. It wasn't their final entry attitude; a further pitch-up would be required for that -- a maneuver they would execute a few minutes before reaching entry interface. But in this attitude, they could make checks of their attitude control and trajectory, and it was a starting point for the jettisoning of the service module.
In general, I would recommend Woods' book as an excellent resource for questions of these type.

flight_plan
Member

Posts: 58
From: Lincs
Registered: Apr 2009

posted 04-27-2009 01:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for flight_plan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for all the answers Robert. You know your stuff and I presume not only started this fantastic forum, but worked/work in the space industry?

As a point to clarify. If the SIV-B carried on in the same direction it started and I presume slower now that it was detached from the service module, I presume the service module sped away, and also move sideways with the thrusters? How far would it need to move away? Or would it be like us in a car changing lanes on a motorway/freeway but leaving the cars behind, behind?

As for getting out of a spacecraft at 17,000 mph and not feeling the speed, I cant get my head around that one. That must be strange.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 43576
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-27-2009 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I should have followed my own advice and read Woods' book: the SIV-B stage did move after separation, though it was still the CSM that was mostly responsible for the maneuvering. From "How Apollo Flew to the Moon":
Once the Apollo spacecraft left them, they became spacecraft in their own right, controlled from Earth and by their own internal systems in the Saturn's instrument until either their batteries ran out or the ground stations ceased to track the receding hulks. The people who controlled the SIV-B from Earth had to use what little residual propulsion the stage had left to achieve these final ends.

After translunar injection, both the SIV-B and the spacecraft were on very similar trajectories which were basically long, elliptical orbits. However the intervening gravitational influence of the Moon determined the final fate of both craft. While the Apollo spacecraft continued on a path to lunar orbit, the SIV-B was given one of two fates.

With regard to not perceiving their velocity, spacewalking astronauts have no frame of reference. If you were to be inserted into a car moving at a steady 60 mph (so that it was neither accelerating or decelerating) and all its windows were covered, you would have no perception of motion, as you would have no frame of reference by which to make the comparison.

(With regards to my own history, no, I have never worked in the aerospace industry itself, but have held positions that relate to it. A brief biographical sketch can be found on this site's About page.)

flight_plan
Member

Posts: 58
From: Lincs
Registered: Apr 2009

posted 04-28-2009 05:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for flight_plan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks again Robert thats an impressive about me page for sure.

If you ever find a need within NASA for a window cleaner or messenger boy on any space craft from now on please let me know and I will send a CV.

I can also check the oil and water plus tyre pressures on a rocket and if Buzz Aldrin needs a shoe shine boy or someone to hold his pen in between autographs, I can do that also.

All times are CT (US)

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