Author
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Topic: Which lunar module is this? (KSC 1969)
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ilbasso Member Posts: 1522 From: Greensboro, NC USA Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 11-11-2008 12:47 PM
My dad took a "backstage" VIP tour of Kennedy Space Center in August 1969. At that time, Apollo 12 was being stacked in the Vertical (later Vehicle) Assembly Building. You may recall that the original plan was to launch Apollo 12 in September 1969 if Apollo 11 had not been successful; it was rescheduled to November after Apollo 11 returned and met the mission goals. Anyway, here is the Apollo 12 stack, viewed from up high. You can see the command and service module in place atop the stack. Later on the tour, he saw this lunar module ascent stage on a dolly. He told me that it was the Apollo 12 LM, but I don't see how that would have been possible if the rest of the vehicle was already stacked. I guess it could have been removed through the side of the SLA, but it seems that would have been awkward... and why removed it and re-wrap it? Does anyone know what other LMs were being finished at KSC in August 1969? I'm guessing this may either be Aquarius or Antares. |
mark plas Member Posts: 385 From: the Netherlands Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 11-11-2008 01:55 PM
In August 1969, the Apollo 13 Saturn V with boilerplate Apollo capsule was already stacked and well in the VAB. It looks like in the picture that a boilerplate capsule is being placed on the Saturn V making this the Saturn V for Apollo 13. The rollout of Apollo 12 was in September 1969 so this surely is not the Apollo 12. It is more likely to be Antares. |
Apollo Redux Member Posts: 346 From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Registered: Sep 2006
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posted 11-11-2008 01:55 PM
I would hazard a guess that this one is Antares. I believe NASA kept to a schedule of 'rollout' of two months prior to launch.Given that Intrepid was in the 'chute' for a possible September launch, and NASA typically had two LMs in the service bay (one in final stage assembly - one newly arrived), I'd say this was Shepard and Mitchell's ride. |
ilbasso Member Posts: 1522 From: Greensboro, NC USA Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 11-11-2008 02:17 PM
I don't remember my dad talking about there being two Saturn V's in the VAB at the time, but that's certainly a possibility. Apollo 12 was definitely there, as you can see from the S-1C-7 label on this one shot. Interestingly, there was a boilerplate CSM and SLA in one of the high bays that day, too. I wonder if that was destined for the Apollo 13 stack? |
Lou Chinal Member Posts: 1332 From: Staten Island, NY Registered: Jun 2007
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posted 11-11-2008 03:22 PM
Nice photos!As I remember Apollo 12 was going to fly in Sept.'69 & Apollo 13 in November '69. That was the plan in early July '69 before the launch of Apollo 11. All that changed July 24, 1969, it was time to party! My guess would be the LM for Apollo 13. Maybe Lovell would recognize it? |
ilbasso Member Posts: 1522 From: Greensboro, NC USA Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 11-11-2008 05:56 PM
I have had some offline correspondence with our friend J.L. Pickering.Although my dad's memoirs don't specify the exact date of his visit to the Cape, he did write this: "We were put aboard chartered aircraft and flown to Houston for a full day NASA briefing and tour and a sneak preview look at the moon rocks bought back only two weeks before by the crew of the first lunar landing. This was followed by a full day at Cape Kennedy and a VIP tour of the facilities. We received the whole treatment and I don't remember any of my classmates who did not grow a little vain as a result of the experience." This would put his visit within the first or second week of August 1969. At that time, Apollo 13 was stacked, with a boilerplate CSM. It was rolled around from one bay to another on August 8. In the top-down view from the high bay, it looks to me like the boilerplate CM is slightly above the SM, so perhaps it is being installed just prior to the rollaround or removed just afterward. There is a photo of the Apollo 13 LM in altitude chamber testing on September 18, 1969. The ascent stage in my dad's photo looks like it had just arrived at the Cape. The thought here is that the Apollo 13 LM was too far along in the assembly and testing process only a month after my dad's photo for this newly-arrived ascent stage to have been it. I'll continue to search for differences in appearance between the ascent stages of the H missions. |
ilbasso Member Posts: 1522 From: Greensboro, NC USA Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 11-11-2008 07:50 PM
OK, I believe I have the answer now. I am pretty sure this is Aquarius, but there are still some curious disconnects in the official timeline. According to NASA Pub SP-4029: - Apollo 12 LM was mated to the SLA on June 23, 1969.
- Apollo 13 LM was delivered to KSC on 27 June 1969 - which makes sense in light of my dad's visit in early August. What doesn't make sense is that the same publication shows the LM's ascent and descent stages as being mated on July 15, about 4 weeks before the picture of the ascent stage sitting alone on the dolly... unless they were subsequently demated for further testing. The same pub shows the ascent and descent stages combined systems testing complete on July 22.
- Apollo 14 LM was not delivered to KSC until November 24, 1969, 3-1/2 months after my dad's visit.
So, this being the Aquarius' ascent stage makes the most sense, except for the incongruity of the reported dates the LM stages were mated and tested. I know my dad was not there before early August, because he has a photo of an Apollo 11 moon rock in his slides. |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 2983 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 11-11-2008 11:12 PM
Without doing any "serious" checking of my own papers and files here, the LM referred to may be LM-9, a backup spare that never flew, as I believe it was at Kennedy in 1969 for testing. The ascent and descent lunar module stages for "7" arrived at KSC on June 27/28, 1969. If not LM-9, my guess would be LM-7/Aquarius, however, I think I'll go with No. 9 as #7 would be further along on her development and testing procedures nearly 6 weeks later. |
mark plas Member Posts: 385 From: the Netherlands Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 11-12-2008 04:09 AM
I don't see any red tags on this LM while I have seen pictures of the LM being uncrated after arriving at KSC with red tags hanging all over it. |
ilbasso Member Posts: 1522 From: Greensboro, NC USA Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 11-12-2008 07:51 AM
Ken and Mark, great points - it makes a lot of sense that this could be LM-9. Good eye, catching the lack of red tags. Also, it seems to be sitting in an out-of-the-way area, not the big rooms that the flight LMs were assembled in. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 43576 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-12-2008 10:56 AM
J.L. Pickering still believes this is LM-8: I have a Grumman chart that lists the history timeline of all LMs. LM-9 served first in an Apollo 12 support role and then in an Apollo 13 support role (this was during manufacturing at Grumman). The last entry on the timeline is 'prep to ship 6-8-70' for the ascent stage and 'prep to ship 6-17-70' for the descent stage. This would indicate that LM-9 was still at the Grumman plant in June of 1970. In fact, I cannot find any material or photos that indicate LM-9 being shipped to KSC back in the Apollo days. |
Tomy1 Member Posts: 180 From: Cape Canaveral, FL Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 11-12-2008 11:09 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't LM-9 hanging in the Saturn V Center at KSC? |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 43576 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-12-2008 11:18 AM
Yes, LM-9 is on display at the Saturn V Center. NASA transferred its ownership to the Smithsonian in March 1973. |
Mr Meek Member Posts: 353 From: Chattanooga, TN Registered: Dec 2007
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posted 11-12-2008 11:49 AM
LM-2, maybe? Just speculation, I have no records to back it up. But it would've been gathering dust at KSC (if it ever made it that far...again, no records) since its mission was obviated. |
ilbasso Member Posts: 1522 From: Greensboro, NC USA Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 11-12-2008 02:30 PM
LM-2... I think we have a winner!We know that LM-2 was used for drop tests in 1969: "The fifth and final drop test of LM-2 was made on May 7. The first four drop tests had been made to establish the proper functioning of all LM systems after a lunar landing. The fifth test was made to qualify the functioning of the pyrotechnics after landing. On May 8, the final test, physically separating the ascent stage, was conducted." From Chariots for Apollo: "The lunar module probably had to undergo the toughest tests and the sharpest scrutiny of all the hardware, procedures, and facilities. LM-2, veteran of the Saturn launch vehicle pogo testing program, was called upon to simulate landing stresses. Robert J. Wren, from Faget's directorate, and a team from Houston and Grumman rigged the vehicle in Houston's vibration and acoustic testing facility. Dropping LM-2 at slightly different angles to see how it would stand the shock of landing was a simple test. But the ascent stage carried a full propellant load and the descent tanks a small quantity of fluid; when the tanks were pressurized, this could be dangerous. Maximum safety precautions were taken, however, and the tests were completed successfully" My dad's tour also took him to the MSC in Houston the same week he went to KSC. So, it's quite possible that this photo was taken at MSC, not at the Cape. I did not realize that a LM had ever been delivered to MSC - so this would seem to solve the mystery. There are no "remove before flight" tags on the vehicle because it was never intended to fly. |
APG85 Member Posts: 307 From: Registered: Jan 2008
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posted 11-15-2008 06:37 PM
I'm no expert, but it would seem to me that a potentially flight ready stage of a LEM would not be sitting around wrapped in plastic on a dolly for visitors to get that close to. Wouldn't it be in a clean room environment? These are terrific pictures! I was able to visit Kennedy when I was a kid in Feb 1969 and saw Apollo 9 on the Pad and I also got to go into the VAB. What an experience! |