Space News
space history and artifacts articles

Messages
space history discussion forums

Sightings
worldwide astronaut appearances

Resources
selected space history documents

  collectSPACE: Messages
  Mercury - Gemini - Apollo
  Would JFK canceled Apollo if he lived?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Would JFK canceled Apollo if he lived?
cspg
Member

Posts: 6222
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006

posted 11-02-2006 09:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A question that that's has been on my mind since I started to learn about Apollo. Thanks to Dwayne Day for, at least, trying to address the question.
Murdering Apollo: John F. Kennedy and the retreat from the lunar goal (part 1)

What if John F. Kennedy had lived? Would he have canceled the Apollo program, or at least slowed it down?

robsouth
Member

Posts: 769
From: West Midlands, UK
Registered: Jun 2005

posted 11-03-2006 06:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for robsouth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with you that this is a very interesting question. How serious was JFK when he said that he wasn't that interested in space? He seemed to be a keen follower of the space program and some of the astronauts have called him an honoury astronaut and a close friend. Did he really just consider the space program another way to beat the Soviets or was he really fascinated by the effort to reach the moon? Would he have cut back on the spending which would lead to maybe a longer time frame for Apollo and missing the end of the decade deadline? If events had turned out differently would Apollo's father have committed infanticide?

JFK is remembered for his famous "We chose to go to the moon" speech, a champion of Apollo, it would be a great shame to find out that he was just being a typical politician with no real love of the space program.

Ken Havekotte
Member

Posts: 2983
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 11-03-2006 07:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Perhaps for both political and "real interest" issues when it came to our National Space Program during that exciting era. From my understanding, JFK wanted a new direction and vision for the country and saw that perhaps an upcoming space frontier would be a great opportunity for Americans to excel in engineering, science and technology challenges of the new decade that was before us. But--what if the nation's first Mercury flight(s) actually failed--certainly if an astronaut(s)was killed during any of those pioneering attempts to explore space--perhaps the young president may have regretted his administration's man-in-space decision as a political failure.

KSCartist
Member

Posts: 2913
From: Titusville, FL USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 11-03-2006 07:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCartist   Click Here to Email KSCartist     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sure had Alan Shepard been lost on the first flight or John Glenn, history may have been different. But nothing succeeds like success. Every politician, not just JFK when they saw how Americans reacted to those missions wanted to be known as a supporter.

I just wish we could enjoy stirring, uplifting speeches from our leaders again like, "We choose to go to the Moon, not because it is easy but because it is hard!"

KC Stoever
Member

Posts: 1012
From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 11-04-2006 11:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KC Stoever   Click Here to Email KC Stoever     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This subject was broached at the NASM conference in September and I had a chance to discuss with Tom Mallon some of the more outre (counterfactual) conclusions I heard.

Mallon wrote, among other things, an account of the JFK assassination called Mrs. Paine's Garage. (Oswald's rifle was stored in the garage; Marina had lived with the Paines, an unsuspecting Quaker couple caught up afterwards in the Warren Commission investigation.)

While dismissing the novel view that JFK planned to cancel or curtail Apollo, Mallon did note that Kennedy was cost- and waste-conscious. In fact, a few hours before his assassination, Kennedy was talking about payloads, but misspoke and said "payroll."

I have listened to the November 21, 1962, recording of the JFK-Webb conversation referenced in Dwayne's article. [on edit: My mistake. Dwayne Day refers to another recorded conversation, not yet available to researchers.] There's no doubt that the two men are having a spirited and even tense exchange.

The president is blunt in private on November 21, 1962, with NASA administrator James Webb ("I'm not all that interested in space"). The president is not delivering a Sorenson speech to taxpayers. He is having a policy disagreement with the NASA administrator.

Listening to the recording, I immediately understood the president to mean that he was NOT interested in the bells and whistles and romance (see science and exploration) on the way to a new frontier. He was interested in winning a contest.

Recall that it was Webb in this 11/21/62 conversation who was soft-pedaling (if not back-pedaling) on JFK's emphatic lunar ambitions. Webb was arguing with the president, as though JFK didn't understand or appreciate all the cool science. I detected a patronizing tone from Webb.

It's at this point that one can hear JFK's palpable annoyance: he was really ticked off at Webb. It was the race he was interested in. The race to the moon and beating the Soviets there. So JFK's blunt statement about space not "interesting" him makes perfect sense.

It wasn't space. It was the contest in space that animated JFK's interest in Apollo.

"Not because it is easy but because it is hard."

Exactly. Too hard for the Soviets. Not too hard for the U.S.

Gilruth had assured JFK of this before JFK announced the lunar program, that the U.S. could beat the Soviets to the moon.

In trying to keep pace, the Soviets would lose some of their vaunted international luster and bluster. That's the kind of partner JFK imagined he might be able to cooperate with, eventually--even in space.

art540
Member

Posts: 432
From: Orange, California USA
Registered: Sep 2006

posted 11-04-2006 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for art540   Click Here to Email art540     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You might also consider that Kennedy was embarrassed by the Bay of Piga and Gagarin's flight - both in April 1961 - as his motivation for Apollo.

fabfivefreddy
Member

Posts: 1067
From: Leawood, Kansas USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 11-04-2006 11:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fabfivefreddy   Click Here to Email fabfivefreddy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
President Kennedy was a key to the successful events which lead to Apollo 11.
Without him, this never would have happened, period (full stop).
It certainly took knowledge already acquired to get there (Armstrong quote).

Wernher von Braun and every scientist including Copernicus and Newton before him were also responsible for the landing. So were the Soviets with their competitive force that drove us (America) to succeed.

JFK was a young, energetic and highly influential President to get it started. It was also the young, energetic engineers and scientist as well as a few brave astronauts that made it happen. It is in this spirit that we collect, in their memory and sacrifices.

IMO, without JFK's tragic death, America would not have made it to the moon by 1969. It could have taken longer. His death, because of the immenense emotion and drive, propelled America to the moon.

The question of "would he have canceled it?" is moot- because he would not have been President anyway. He was elected in 1960 and would have left in 1968 if re-elected. So he could not have cancelled it with Presidential influence anyway.

My feeling is that he would have supported Apollos 18-20, and a mission to Mars because he had vision- he wanted to advance our science and exploration. He was a visionary. What a great American President!

KC Stoever
Member

Posts: 1012
From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 11-05-2006 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KC Stoever   Click Here to Email KC Stoever     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Agree all around that JFK was pivotal, etc.

I may be getting the original topic wrong, with the link to Dwayne Day's article, but it was my sense from an opening presentation (not Day's if I recall correctly) at the NASM/NASA conference that some historians were suggesting (rather darkly, in my view) that by 1963 JFK had active and well-formed plans to scuttle the Apollo program in favor of a cost-sharing lunar expedition with the Soviet Union.

According to this theory, the Kennedy assassination constituted a welcome turning point for NASA, as LBJ swooped in with the vision thing to ensure a U.S. moon landing "before the decade was out," fulfilling a Kennedy promise that--again, according to this theory--Kennedy himself had planned to break.

Apparently, presidential conversations purported to address this subject--conversations that would bolster or bust this startling historical theory--remain classified at the JFK Library.

Dwayne Day is urging their declassification sooner rather than later, suggesting perhaps that he believes it would be nice, if one has a theory, to present evidence that consists of more than one speech to the UN.

P.S. Found this fascinating 2005 Air Force monograph that addresses this issue (with great documentation).

All times are CT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Source for Space History & Artifacts

Copyright 2020 collectSPACE.com All rights reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47a





advertisement