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Author
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Topic: One, Two, Three Times to the Moon!
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Columbiad1
Member Posts: 38
From: Lakeland, FL, USA
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted 04-22-2005 12:56 AM
   
I think most people know that only 3 men have gone 2 times to the moon, first Jim Lovell on AP 8 (orbit) and 13 (flyby), 2nd John Young on AP 10 (orbit) and 16 (moonwalk) and 3rd Eugene Cernan on AP 10 (descent) and 17 (moonwalk). As you can see Eugene Cernan comes the closet to the moon with 2 trips a (descent) and a (moonwalk). Does anyone know if any astronaut was planned for a 3rd mission to the moon? If not Eugene Cernan came in the closest. Anyone have more info on this? I think that if Apollo 10 was first mission to land on the moon Tom Stafford would of been the 1st man to walk on the moon as Commander and Eugene Cernan the 2nd man as an LMP...Cernan later commanded Apollo 17 so it may of been Eugene Cernan as the only man to walk twice on the moon, interesting! Anyone elses thoughts?
[This message has been edited by Columbiad1 (edited April 22, 2005).] |
collshubby
Member Posts: 591
From: Madisonville, Louisiana
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-22-2005 01:50 AM
Richard Gordon was to command Apollo 18, making his second trip to the Moon. Fred Haise was scheduled to command Apollo 19, making his second trip. I think Pete Conrad was scheduled to command Apollo 20. There was always a chance that one of the back-up crews would have had to step up for one of the Apollo missions, making it possible for someone to make an extra trip to the Moon. John Young was on the back-up crew of Apollo 17. That gave him the chance to go to the Moon three times (and walk on it twice).
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Brian Peter
astronautbrian@hotmail.com |
Matt T
Member Posts: 1369
From: Chester, Cheshire, UK
Registered: May 2001
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posted 04-22-2005 03:15 AM
If ever anyone was fated not to walk on the moon it was Fred Haise. Three lunar missions as backup (8, 11, 16) and a fourth lunar mission as prime crew (13). Admittedly he'd have been hard pressed to do much actual moonwalking on Apollo 8.  Cheers,
Matt ------------------
www.spaceracemuseum.com |
Matt T
Member Posts: 1369
From: Chester, Cheshire, UK
Registered: May 2001
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posted 04-22-2005 03:24 AM
Also speaking of backup crews - I just noticed that Stu Roosa (no small contender in the three potential moon trips department either, 14 prime, 16 & 17 backup) was selected straight to the Apollo 14 prime without ever serving on a backup or support crew. Was this unique in the Apollo crews?Cheers,
Matt ------------------
www.spaceracemuseum.com |
Henry_Heatherbank
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posted 04-22-2005 03:28 AM
MattBeing very cynical, Stu Roosa and co-rookie Ed Mitchell went straight to prime without serving backup in order to give Big Al a junior crew over whom he could assert his authority. Other permutations (incl. the much talked about pairing with Jim McDivitt as LMP) could have caused ripples, with a CDR (with only 15 mins suborbital flight time) having less experience than his subordinate crew members. I recall that others like McDivitt had a real problem with Al jumping the crew, and so did guys like Bill Anders etc. |
machbusterman
Member Posts: 1778
From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Registered: May 2004
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posted 04-22-2005 06:58 AM
If it hadn't been for Deke Slayton "Big Al" wouldn't have got his moonshot on AP14. For me, the guy didn't deserve to jump over Gordo Cooper to command that flight after Cooper had been the backup CDR on AP10. Cooper's flight experience should have put him at the forefront to command an early moon-landing and Al's role should have been resigned to that of LMP or CMP.Had Gordo's crew remained in the loop then he'd have been in command of the ill-fated AP13 mission with Lovell and Haise walking on the moon on AP14. If Eisele had still been on the crew of AP13 does anyone know where this would this have placed Stu Roosa? Thanks and best regards, Derek |
DavidH
Member Posts: 1217
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 04-22-2005 10:04 AM
quote:
I think Pete Conrad was scheduled to command Apollo 20.
As I understand it, Conrad and Bean decided after Apollo 12 to transfer to AAP, and give others a shot at going to the Moon. ------------------
http://allthese worlds.hatbag.net/space.php
"America's challenge of today has forged man's destiny of tomorrow." - Commander Eugene Cernan, Apollo 17 Mission, 11 December 1972 |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3165
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 04-22-2005 10:30 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Henry_Heatherbank:
Stu Roosa and co-rookie Ed Mitchell went straight to prime without serving backup
Mitchell did serve backup, for Apollo 10, and was the only one to survive the rotation. FF
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collshubby
Member Posts: 591
From: Madisonville, Louisiana
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-22-2005 12:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by DavidH:
As I understand it, Conrad and Bean decided after Apollo 12 to transfer to AAP, and give others a shot at going to the Moon.
I stand corrected. The most likely crew for Apollo 20 was Roosa, Lind, and Lousma. ------------------
Brian Peter
astronautbrian@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by collshubby (edited April 22, 2005).] |
Glint
Member Posts: 1044
From: New Windsor, Maryland USA
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 04-22-2005 12:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by collshubby:
....Fred Haise was scheduled to command Apollo 19, making his second trip.
Not only Fred Haise's second trip to the Moon, but it was be his second trip to the surface making him the first man to land twice. (As you pointed out Pete Conrad would have been the 2nd man to land twice on Apollo 20). This is based on presumed crew rotations such as those posted at http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo_18_20.html . Had the primary mission of Apollo 13 been achieved Haise would have gone on to land a second time. Another astronaut that missed his chance was Apollo 17 LMP Engle, who was bumped by Apollo 18 LMP Schmitt. I presume this was so that NASA's goal of landing a scientist on the moon and returning him safely to the earth could be achieved (http://www.skyrocket.de/space/index_frame.htm?http://www.skyrocket.de/space/doc_sat/backup.htm). Haise and Engle both went on to command the crews that flew space shuttle Enterprise.
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Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3160
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 04-22-2005 01:30 PM
John Young came closest to visiting the Moon three times. As Apollo 17 back-up commander he nearly had to step into Gene Cernan's boots when Cernan injured his leg in a sporting incident shortly before Apollo 17. |
Tom
Member Posts: 1610
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 04-22-2005 02:56 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Matt T:
Also speaking of backup crews - I just noticed that Stu Roosa (no small contender in the three potential moon trips department either, 14 prime, 16 & 17 backup) was selected straight to the Apollo 14 prime without ever serving on a backup or support crew. Was this unique in the Apollo crews?Cheers,
Matt
Roosa being assigned to a prime Apollo crew without serving on a back-up crew first is not unique. Fellow Apollo 14 CDR Shepard did it as well. |
ApolloAlex
Member Posts: 390
From: Yeovil, England
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 04-22-2005 03:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by collshubby:
I stand corrected. The most likely crew for Apollo 20 was Roosa, Lind, and Lousma.
I believe i read in one of Dave Shaylers books that the crew for Apollo 20 was Roosa CDR,Weitz CMP and Lousma LMP.
Alex. ------------------
"Why dont you fix your little problem and light this Candle?" [This message has been edited by ApolloAlex (edited April 22, 2005).] |
J_Geenty
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posted 04-22-2005 04:51 PM
Nobody knows how Apollo 20 would have worked out. IMHO the most likely crew was CDR Roosa, CMP Weitz and LMP Lousma. Mitchell is also mentioned sometimes as being a potential CDR because he ranked so highly in the 1966 Class. Conrad, maybe but I doubt it. There was something of an unofficial rule that you only got to Command one Apollo lunar landing. And as for the often mentioned tale of how much Cooper deserved a lunar flight...its not that simple. Gordo made it easy for Shepard to take his place by his slack attitude to training. He rubbed up NASA management the wrong way, was slack with GT-12 and didn't do enough on the Apollo 10 backup crew to cement his place in a Prime Crew slot. I believe there is a rumour that Deke even said to Tom Stafford something along the lines of "Don't get sick" before Apollo 10, meaning he didn't want to send Cooper. Gordo flew a great Mercury mission, was good on GT-5, but after that... not much. Even if Shepard hadn't returned to flight status, I'm not convinced Gordo would have flown 13. As for Eisele, I'm sorry to say he was essentially fired. It didn't have anything to do with him being too experienced to put on a crew with Shepard. |
carmelo
Member Posts: 1051
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 04-23-2005 09:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by DavidH:
As I understand it, Conrad and Bean decided after Apollo 12 to transfer to AAP, and give others a shot at going to the Moon.
Yes, immediately AFTER the cancellation of Apollo 20. |
taneal1
Member Posts: 237
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 04-23-2005 12:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by carmelo:
Yes, immediately AFTER the cancellation of Apollo 20.
Apollo 20 was officialy cancelled when it was decided that Skylab would be a "dry" Workshop, requiring a Saturn 5 for launch. Tom |
NASAVideographer
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posted 04-23-2005 11:51 PM
In October of 2003 I interviewed Alan Bean and he specifically said that he, Conrad and Gordon talked about this while returning from the moon. Conrad and Bean said they were going to move over to Skylab and Dick Gordon said "Well I want to walk on the moon..."James
Huntsville, AL |
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