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Author
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Topic: 281389917893: Apollo 14 Flown Flag
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capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 07-20-2014 09:17 PM
   
A question for those of you more familiar with flown flag presentations than I:The auction referenced in the subject line is described as "Rare Apollo 14 'Lunar Surface Flown' American Flag and Authentic crew autographs!" The seller uses the Zarelli authentication of the autographs and the RR COA as justification to call it lunar-surface flown. But... is it actually lunar surface flown? The wording on the certificate (similar to that from other missions' flags) is "This Flag Was Carried to the Moon on the Apollo 14 Mission to Fra Mauro" ...that does not mean it was flown to the surface (I don't think) ...this is the certificate used for the flags from the OFK carried on board Kitty Hawk (I think). Am I missing something? My amateurish assessment is that this flag is a really cool item, flown aboard Kitty Hawk on Apollo 14 and probably worth in the $1500-2500 range (barring a couple competing bidders who really want it). Incidentally, I am not considering plunking down $30K for this item, but I sent a nicely worded message to the seller, and he absolutely insists that he has the COAs and provenance to support this flag having been flown to the lunar surface aboard Antares. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-20-2014 09:37 PM
The OFK wasn't introduced until Apollo 17. It was devised in the wake of Apollo 15 as part of the way NASA sought to address concerns over flight mementos.Prior to Apollo 17, flags were carried in the astronauts' PPKs and in the mission's "flag kit," as described here. The seller seems to think his flag is one of the 25 small U.S. flags from Apollo 14's flag kit that were indeed stowed in the lunar module. I don't believe that's the case. He also makes a mistake writing that the astronauts carried only a few flags in their PPKs. The opposite was true: the crew had as many, if not more flags in their PPKs than were flown in the flag kit. The astronauts had PPKs stowed in the command module and the lunar module. The Apollo 14 astronauts, specifically, did carry small U.S. flags to the lunar surface in at least one PPK. Flags were also in PPKs stored in the CM. |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 07-20-2014 09:46 PM
Thanks for the clarification on the OFK.I have seen Apollo 14 flags flown to the surface -- I don't think I've seen one that was not declared as such on the flag itself though, as it seems that Ed Mitchell carried flags to the moon in his PPK (Shepard may have as well, but I don't recall ever seeing one). |
Greggy_D
Member Posts: 977
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 07-21-2014 06:47 PM
Does anyone remember this from one of the RR Auction? How was this flag presented within the auction (flown to the surface or flown to the moon)? |
fredtrav
Member Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 07-22-2014 10:22 AM
I did not see this flag on RR Auction's past auction list. There were two other flags on the same type certificate and neither of them had any indication they were flown to the lunar surface. One sold in May 2012 for $2405 (including BP) and one sold in the January 2011 auction for $4915. This one was inscribed by Stu Roosa. Also in the same auction, a flag that was stated as flown to the lunar surface by Stu Roosa sold for $4981. This was mounted on a matte board and inscribed to Al Bishop. According to the description: Originating from the nation's third lunar landing mission, this is one of the earliest known 'lunar surface' notated flown flags in an astronaut's own hand. Just about all known flags flown on prior lunar landing missions never indicated it was on the moon's surface, but simply flown to the moon. |
schnappsicle
Member Posts: 396
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 07-27-2014 12:23 AM
I saw this flag on eBay. It seems obvious to me that the description does not match the item. They're trying to sell it as a flag flown to the lunar surface, but the description on the plaque clearly does not say that. I would really like to warn people about this item, but I can't seem to be able to do so. I doubt anyone will buy it with that inflated asking price, but you never know.Editor's note: Threads merged. |
schnappsicle
Member Posts: 396
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 07-27-2014 01:12 AM
I found the original RR listing on a very similar flagIt is from the May, 2012 auction. It sold for $2,204, which seems about right. |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 07-27-2014 10:42 AM
I kinda think the seller is on a fishing expedition ... you never know when you might get a bite. |
schnappsicle
Member Posts: 396
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 07-27-2014 04:38 PM
I sent a message to the seller (actually several messages) telling him that his flag was flown to the moon and not taken to the surface. I painstakingly explained the difference to him and even showed him some Apollo 14 examples of the 2 different kinds of flags, one of which looked exactly like his. I went through every explanation I could, but he refuses to believe me. He claims to have found a goldmine that everyone else has missed. He told me several times that the stowage list clearly identifies his flag as one stored aboard the LM. I explained to him that there's nothing tying his flag to the item number on the stowage list he bases his theory on.I wish there was some way to get eBay involved in this. He's clearly confused. |
schnappsicle
Member Posts: 396
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 07-27-2014 05:31 PM
I just told him to go to the source and email Dr. Mitchell and ask him to verify the flag. I'll let you know if and how he responds. |
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