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  260627827376: Vintage beta samples bag

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Author Topic:   260627827376: Vintage beta samples bag
stsmithva
Member

Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 06-29-2010 08:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for stsmithva   Click Here to Email stsmithva     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was tempted by an item on eBay in the UK, but I've decided against buying it and thought I'd post about it here in case another member might be interested.

The auction ended today, but the buyer backed out and it is back up with a Buy It Now price of 360 pounds, or about $540.

It is item 260627827376, described as a NASA Betacloth Apollo Samples Return Bag, Apollo 13.

Here is part of the description:

Beta cloth (Betacloth) zipped bag for Moon rock ? or other samples return to earth. This is a genuine NASA astronaut artefact from the Apollo era. This would have been transfered from the LEM to the CM for the trip home.
It is indeed a large (about 18"x15") vintage NASA beta cloth bag, designed for spaceflight. It is even signed by James Lovell and Fred Haise, and comes with a photograph of Lovell signing it.

However, in this case I think those signatures are actually a distraction. There is a label on the bag reading "M071/M073 SAMPLES RETURN CONTAINER", and a little online research reveals that this bag dates from the Skylab missions. And certainly not for moon rocks - I'll put a description of the experiments from a NASA history at the end of this post.

So if anyone is interested in a Skylab beta cloth bag (possibly flown? Another label starts with "v56-", which indicates Skylab II) signed by two Apollo 13 astronauts, now you know about it. I'd appreciate it if anyone who has further information or opinions about this item could post about it.

Gemini had shown that astronauts lost calcium from bones and nitrogen from muscle-not enough to be operationally dangerous on a lunar landing mission but potentially serious for longer flights. Nothing was done in Apollo, however, and in 1969 the medics knew no more about the process than in 1966. Two Skylab experiments, M071 and M073, were designed to determine how long the losses continued, how serious they were, and whether anything could be done to arrest or reverse the changes.

Experiment M073 measured the urinary output of several substances of metabolic importance; its requirements affected mainly the urine and feces collection systems. M071, on the other hand, required accurate control of mineral intake as well as accurate measurement of output. Mineral-balance studies are common but exacting procedures. The subjects, usually hospital patients confined to bed, are given a constant, carefully measured supply of the constituents under study (calcium and nitrogen), and their total output of urine and feces is collected, accurately measured, and carefully analyzed. Even in a well equipped hospital such studies are difficult; on Skylab, experimenters proposed to conduct them on active astronauts engaged in a host of other activities at the same time.

spaced out
Member

Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 06-30-2010 02:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At first glance this did look like a beta cloth bag to enclose a Apollo Lunar Sample Return Container, and the description and Lovell/Haise signatures certainly seemed to imply that. When I managed to dig up some photos of the actual bag for the ALSRC it was not a match however and as mentioned above a bit of research into the M071/3 experiments shows they were Skylab, not Apollo.

I actually think the v56- part number indicates Skylab 4 (aka III) but as I don't have a stowage list for these missions I can't be sure.

In any case it would have been a nice item to have signed by some of the Skylab astronauts but Lovell and Haise?

I asked the seller about all this and his reply was:

The experiment may be as you said however the experiments started on the Apollo mission and you will find the first reports dated 1969 - long before Skylab. The item is Apollo and would indeed be transfered from CM to LEM and back. Lovell told me something different but the experiment numbers speak for themselves (I have looked them up).
My emphasis on the Lovell bit there. The implication is that when this was put on the table in front of Lovell he questioned whether this was an Apollo item but signed it anyway. How is this expressed in the item listing?
Captain Lovell authenticated this...
This is still a nice item, but in my opinion it would actually be worth more without the Lovell and Haise signatures, and maybe with a few Skylab signatures instead.

It's like those lucite disc with bits of unflown kapton that are signed by Bean or Cernan - don't read anything into astronaut signatures on items. It doesn't necessarily mean they were associated with their missions in any way.

All times are CT (US)

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