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Author
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Topic: 170475702464: Riser fake: opinion on autographs
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spaceflori
Member Posts: 1499
From: Germany
Registered: May 2000
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posted 04-21-2010 12:22 PM
   
I'm looking for opinions on my own eBay lot 170475702464.The cover itself is a known Riser fake (which became collectibles meanwhile themselves), but I'm fairly sure that some of the autographs are authentic !
(mostly the Riser covers like the LaSalle or Lake Champlain have forged signatures, too) - Alan B. Shepard - secretarial
- Walter Schirra - fake
- Gordon Cooper - authentic signature
- Scott Carpenter - authentic signature
- George Cox - authentic signature
- Deke Slayton - authentic signature
This cover is from the collection of former SpaceUnit president Ben Ramkissoon.Opinions? Florian ------------------
Flown artifacts, autographs and more !
www.spaceflori.com |
DChudwin
Member Posts: 1096
From: Lincolnshire IL USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 04-21-2010 10:38 PM
In my opinion the autographs are all fake-- some being better forgeries than others. |
spaceflori
Member Posts: 1499
From: Germany
Registered: May 2000
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posted 04-22-2010 12:01 AM
Thanks for your opinion, that was my original thought as well since I only know this cover to be entirely fake.But when I started to look at the autographs closely the Cooper, Carpenter and Slayton appear to be real. I just can't find anything wrong with them - plus the Riser forgeries of the signatures we usually see are different and usually include Glenn and Grissom, too. (more shaky like the Schirra here). Also Shepard is secretarial, not a fake. The only explanation I have is that someone bought the fake then (possibly with some forged signatures already on) and then sent it to some more astronauts. That's what some folks did over here before the scandal became public with Rise. Florian |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 04-22-2010 12:00 PM
I don't believe the Shepard is a secretarial, but is more likely just a poorly done forgery. It doesn't look like any of the common secretarial styles we typically see, since Shepard's secretaries tended to be neater with their signatures. I think it's more probable that Riser provided the cover with a Shepard forgery already on it (as Shepard's signature is the most logical choice to apply to this cover)...and he likely added the Schirra forgery too. Some history of the Riser forgeries is discussed on Bob McLeod's web site. The quality of the Shepard and Schirra forgeries here appear to be on par with the forgeries that Riser apparently provided. I am also on the fence regarding the Slayton and Cooper signatures. They could be real, but like DChudwin says, they could simply be better forgeries than the others. Also, personally speaking, I tend to dislike items with "mixed" authenticity, where autopens, secretarials, or forgeries are mixed in with authentic signatures. I feel they are bothersome, since one's eye tends to be drawn towards the problem signatures, ruining the enjoyment of the authentic signatures. No matter how many authentic signatures you add to the piece, I can't help but feel it's already been tainted by the non-authentic examples. (Just my opinion, of course...) |
spaceflori
Member Posts: 1499
From: Germany
Registered: May 2000
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posted 04-22-2010 01:00 PM
Completely agree - mixed authenticity is certainly the worst you can have as a collector. However with these covers most people back then were fooled and possibly added some more authentic signatures later until the Riser scandal was discovered!With this one coming from Ramkissoon I wonder if he got fooled as well back then. He only had 100% real autographs on the other items in his collection I bought. |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 691
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 04-27-2010 03:27 PM
I agree with David. Without further inquiry I would regard all signatures as faked. |
cddfspace
Member Posts: 609
From: Morris County, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 04-27-2010 04:35 PM
Wow...sold for $202.51. |
spaceflori
Member Posts: 1499
From: Germany
Registered: May 2000
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posted 04-30-2010 06:51 AM
And this was even a good deal!Riser Lake Champlain forgeries used to sell at around $500 in the past (signed or unsigned didn't matter). They are needed by many having the real thing to show the differences between right and wrong - almost any big collection shows the Riser fakes. |
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