posted 12-17-2022 05:09 PM            

I can only assume in next few years that Artemis astronauts will carry flags to the moon and these will become available on the market where the internet can easily advertise such a valuable item but ultimately make these items readily available.

posted 12-17-2022 08:10 PM               

1. I think the market for collectibles has changed dramatically in the past 50 years. There's a much greater awareness and desire for things like this, and that will lead to a much more organized system for flown items. I think this will also lead to a greater acceptance of collectibles.

   I think in today's world, something like the Apollo 15 postal cover scandal would be much less of an issue. I wouldn't be surprised to see NASA directly selling flown flags and things like that, and paying the astronauts to sign the presentation paperwork.

2. The Artemis missions will have far more cargo space than Apollo, leading to a greater amount of flown material.

3. The Apollo program had more deadlines, historical significance, and danger. As a result, the idea of carrying mementos was smaller than it perhaps could have been.

   For example, I think it's a tragedy that NASA instructed Neil Armstrong to leave his lunar boots on the moon. At that point, it was more important to spend that weight on moon rocks instead. But after several more successful missions brought back much greater quantities, I believe that the first boot to set foot on another world is more important than a few more pounds of moon rocks.

   The legacy of Apollo isn't the geological findings it enabled, but rather the fact that human beings actually walked on the moon. So I think it's a shame that the boots weren't returned.

   I think Artemis programs won't need to be so strict.

My personal prediction is that Artemis mementos will still be extremely expensive initially. But I think that the major side effect will be that Apollo artifacts skyrocket in price. Once the public begins to hear about buying flown Artemis artifacts, many more people will become aware of our (mostly unknown) hobby. If everyone today knew that it was possible to buy these kinds of things already, the prices would go up tenfold.

And the reality is that having flown space material is going to become very unimportant. The only thing that will remain important is the historical value. In the same way that a piece of the Wright Flyer is worth more than a piece of a modern passenger plane.

posted 12-17-2022 09:16 PM               

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Originally posted by hbw60:
I wouldn't be surprised to see NASA directly selling flown flags and things like that, and paying the astronauts to sign the presentation paperwork.

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NASA astronauts are civil servants, who by law, cannot use their position to benefit themselves or others while still in hire to the government. They cannot be compensated for their autograph beyond what they are already earning as a salary.

As for NASA, it cannot fundraise (other than for an employee assistance fund and then only under congressional oversight). It can partner with other government agencies authorized to do so (like the USPS) but that requires a good deal of work.

NASA can also enable third parties to conduct commercial activities on its missions, so long as the space agency's costs are covered. The latter may make it financially impracticable to sell flags, as there just isn't a large enough market to make it worth the effort.

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The Artemis missions will have far more cargo space than Apollo, leading to a greater amount of flown material.

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Orion is already very close to its weight limits. As an example, the astronaut office wanted a shuttle-like privacy door for the waste management system but it was too heavy. Lockheed Martin could only accomodate a curtain.

For the same reason, NASA plans to return far fewer moon rocks (including lunar ice samples) to Earth than during Apollo. Astronauts will either sort through what they collect aboard the Gateway and only pack the most interesting samples for the return to Earth, or later do the same in facilities on the lunar surface.

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I think Artemis programs won't need to be so strict.

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1. NASA's budget is not growing to Apollo program-levels, so it will still be looking to reuse anything and everything it can from mission to mission. So while overboots may be collected (and maybe even returned to Earth), they are more likely to be reused, then downgraded to training and educational use before finally being released to museums, much like shuttle EMU components.

   NASA's next-generation spacesuits may also forego custom-sized components to support the agency's desire for reuse. But even not, that brings up...

2. NASA is much more aware of the collector market than it was during the Apollo program and it is no more supportive of it. As a result, the agency has become more selective about how and when it releases artifacts and memorabilia. So even if flags are flown in greater number, it may take much longer for any to reach the collector market given the advice (instructions) NASA and its contractors tell their employees about selling what they receive (even if it is legal).

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But everything from Gagarin to ASTP will increase in value, because of their historical significance.

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posted 12-19-2022 02:36 AM               

Obviously the 'flown to the moon' appeal of Apollo-flown items will be less special when more items are flown there, but the huge separation in time from the Apollo missions to today will mean that 'flown to the moon on Apollo' will always have a very distinct appeal of its own.

Personally I would never have predicted the kind of prices fetched by Space-X flown mementos today, which rival anything from the Shuttle era and sometimes even Apollo, and that's just from Earth orbit missions.

posted 12-26-2022 10:03 AM               

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Originally posted by capoetc:
Regardless of what direction the market may move, I think the best advice remains: "Collect what you like."

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posted 12-27-2022 01:37 PM               

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Originally posted by cosmos-walter:
I would also like to know what development of crew-signed covers and (especially Apollo and Soyuz) flown covers you expect.

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I don't prowl eBay and really don't have much knowledge on how well crew signed covers sell, but from others do believe that there still is a healthy market for them and it should continue and maybe increase with the Artemis lunar program continuing in the news.