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Author
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Topic: Apollo 1 crew-signed philatelic cover(s)
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poofacio
Member Posts: 268
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2006
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posted 11-29-2006 03:09 PM
   
Has anyone ever seen or heard of a crew signed Apollo 1 postal cover? Is there such a thing? |
Apollo-Soyuz
Member Posts: 1303
From: Shady Side, Md
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 11-29-2006 03:51 PM
The only thing I have seen was a crew signed Apollo 1 photo. Ken H. can probably confirm this. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3678
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 11-29-2006 04:16 PM
I've never seen a crew-signed Apollo 1 related cover in anyway, however, I do have a non-posted cover that has all three autopens of Grissom, White and Chaffee on the same cover. By all means, if there is one of those "out there" somewhere with authentic signatures, it would probably be one of the rarest astronaut crew-signed covers. |
poofacio
Member Posts: 268
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2006
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posted 11-29-2006 05:15 PM
Looks like I have a major problem! I decided a good target was to collect a signed uninscribed photo and a cover the same for every American astronaut, and a signed uninscribed crew photo and cover for every mission, a flown item for every mission, and Mission Control staff starting with Ham (signature was a problem!) up to and including STS-1.The Apollo 1 crew pic and "flown" item were a nightmare but if you esteemed gentlemen have never even heard of a cover where do I go from there? I only have two arms and legs to trade! |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 11-29-2006 05:46 PM
The solution is simple! Just modify your goal to collect all of the above items for every FLOWN mission. That takes Apollo 1 out of the equation. |
poofacio
Member Posts: 268
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2006
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posted 11-29-2006 05:56 PM
I can't do that, that's defeatist! There must be just one somewhere.I keep watching the press in the hope that Ham will do a signing somewhere! |
eurospace
Member Posts: 2678
From: Berlin, Germany
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 11-30-2006 02:50 AM
The best you will get is a signed photo or an unsigned (albeit backdated) cover from the accident of the anniversary of the latter. |
spaceflori
Member Posts: 1531
From: Germany
Registered: May 2000
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posted 11-30-2006 12:07 PM
I have never seen a crew signed Apollo 1 related cover either but I'm pretty sure I've seen multiple signed covers that included the Apollo 1 crew — however they weren't cancelled in any relation to Apollo 1.I'm fairly sure that William Numeroff, the designer, has created some sort of a hand drawn certificate that was signed by the Apollo 1 crew and possibly even cancelled with an Apollo 1 related postmarker, but that again wasn't a cover. |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 812
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 11-30-2006 03:51 PM
Actually I am aware of one Apollo 1 cover with the signatures of Gus Grisson, Ed White and Roger Chaffee.  It is one of only some 40 covers, that were postmarked at Kennedy Space Center after the accident. Originally the three astronauts signed covers, which were not related to a manned space mission. Thus, the known German artist Detlev van Ravenswaay made an illustration integrating the three signatures.  Another interesting signed cover was postmarked at Houston on Dec 24th, 1968 being the day of the man's first circle around the moon. It bears the signatures of Apollo 8 and 11 crews. |
poofacio
Member Posts: 268
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2006
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posted 11-30-2006 03:58 PM
Thank you for that. I just knew there had to be such a thing. The only problem now is finding one of them! |
MarylandSpace
Member Posts: 1424
From:
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 11-30-2006 04:02 PM
To hold the Apollo 1 space in my "launch and/or prime recovery ship" cover collection, I have a Jan 27, 1967 Apollo Tragedy cover postmarked at Port Washington, NY. Available in the $1-$5 range on Ebay. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 11-30-2006 04:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cosmos-walter:
It is one of only some 40 covers, that were postmarked at KSC after the accident.
Just to clarify, are you saying there were 40 crew-signed covers that were cancelled... or 40 covers in general that were cancelled (with one or possibly two of them bearing signatures)?I have to wonder what price such an item would bring. It seems that signed photos sell in the $5,000-$10,000 range. I hope you have deep pockets poofacio! |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 812
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 11-30-2006 04:31 PM
A total of 40 covers are said to be postmarked at KSC after Apollo 1 tragedy before the date was changed next day. I never saw another one of those covers with any signature. |
micropooz
Member Posts: 1707
From: Washington, DC, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 11-30-2006 05:09 PM
There are also covers (unautographed) out there postmarked at Patrick AFB for Jan. 27. These may be backdates too, but it is theoretically possible that they are legit - the fire happened at 6:31 pm, the Patrick PO didn't close until 7 pm that night. |
yeknom-ecaps
Member Posts: 833
From: Northville MI USA
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 11-30-2006 06:50 PM
Walter - for clarification, are you saying the signatures on the Apollo 1 cover from KSC are part of the illustration and NOT their actual signatures? Further posts sound like they are looking at these as actual signatures. |
yeknom-ecaps
Member Posts: 833
From: Northville MI USA
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 11-30-2006 06:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by micropooz:
...the Patrick PO didn't close until 7 pm that night.
I believe the Patrick AFB post office was open until 8 PM. I thought I read that Satellite Beach was open until 7 PM.Houston cancels were from post office that was open until midnight - believe 100 covers cancelled there. |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 812
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 11-30-2006 06:56 PM
The three astronauts signed three different covers. The artist cut the signatures out of the three covers and integrated them into this covers while painting the illustration. Thus they are genuine signatures. |
yeknom-ecaps
Member Posts: 833
From: Northville MI USA
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 11-30-2006 08:17 PM
Walter - thank you for the clarification, I wanted to be sure I understood you correctly.Poofacio - so you could "create" a crew signed cover this way as well as there are a number of individually signed items available (and the signatures don't have to originally be on a cover). A Patrick AFB, Satellite Beach or Houston cancel for the fire date can be found in the $100 - $150 range. |
poofacio
Member Posts: 268
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2006
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posted 12-01-2006 02:10 AM
I could, but there is no point! Creating things is creating things, collecting is collecting. Back to the drawing board (not literally!) |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1869
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 12-01-2006 07:24 AM
It would be beneficial to learn the provenance of the three signatures on the Apollo 1 cover from KSC — when and where they were signed and how far back their history is known. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3678
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 12-01-2006 08:17 PM
Agreed. It would be extremely helpful if more information, provenance, etc. can be determined from the cut signatures. For the record, unofficial of course, I have some concerns about the autographs depicted here. Perhaps Walter can shed more light on this interesting Apollo 1-related autograph issue. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3678
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 12-02-2006 04:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by spaceflori:
I'm fairly sure that William Numeroff, the designer, has created some sort of a hand drawn certificate that was signed by the Apollo 1 crew...
Yes, I knew Bill Numeroff and worked with him in getting various panels, covers, etc. posted for various space events. To my knowledge, he never had an item that was signed by all the Apollo 1 crew members. He told me that he had Chaffee's hand-drawn portrait panel "in" to the astronauts' mail room at Houston for Roger to sign. The others for Grissom and White, signed separately on their individual pencil portraits, were already done earlier since both had a previous space flight. I think about a week or so before the tragic Apollo fire took place at Pad 34, he got in the mail Chaffee's drawing back, and, it was signed! Once the maiden Apollo manned mission was flown, as scheduled no earlier than in late Feb. 1967, Bill was going to sketch all three crew members together, if my memory is correct, and have the group portrait signed after their space voyage. |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 812
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 09-18-2023 02:55 PM
(Reviving this 2006 thread) Ken, I purchased three covers each signed by one of the Apollo 1 astronauts from my late friend Leo Malz from New York. Detlev van Ravenswaay from Germany did the illustration. He had no concerns about their authenticity. Unfortunately I did not keep pictures of the original covers. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3678
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 09-18-2023 03:20 PM
Might be best to have Steve Z. look at this piece as the White looks atypical to me in a couple of areas and I am just not certain about Chaffee (and a concern about Grissom in this format). Also, Walter, are you saying that the three signatures were cut from paper that had been later affixed to the ONC cover as we see it here? |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 812
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 09-18-2023 04:01 PM
Ken, I sent a high resolution scan to Steve. Yes, the three signatures were cut from three different covers that had been later affixed to the ONC cover. |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1869
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-18-2023 04:33 PM
I think that Ken and I will agree that this van Ravenswaay-handled Apollo 1 signed cover has no chance to pass a Zarelli authenticity test. |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 812
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 09-19-2023 02:59 AM
Ken and Bob, Steve agrees with you. |
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