Posts: 227
From: Washington, DC USA
Registered: Dec 2006

posted 06-25-2007 06:21 PM               

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I am new to the world of beta cloth, but I saw several beta cloth patches being sold on eBay.

Is there anything I should keep in mind when shopping around for beta cloth patches? I saw from a previous thread that there was commemorative set, including the Apollo XI mission patch, issued by the manufacturer of the cloth. How does one ensure he gets the "right kind" or "true" beta cloth?

Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 06-26-2007 06:32 AM               

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One thing to watch out for is patches with printing errors, particularly where one or more of the colors is offset from the rest. These errors are quite common and such patches were probably factory rejects.

The Apollo 11 you mention on eBay is a good (or bad) example of this, especially noticeable around the Eagle's head and wings.

Posts: 542
From: Seminole, Fla.
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 06-26-2007 02:43 PM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by DCCollector:
How does one ensure he gets the "right kind" or "true" beta cloth?

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The only significant Apollo-era "non-official" beta cloth emblems I am aware of are the two commemorative Apollo 11 ones issued by Owens-Corning. The crew insignia one is easily-identifiable because it is missing "Apollo 11" at the top; the other one is a "Man on the Moon" commemorative that bears no real relationship to an official crew design. So other than those two, I'd says almost 100% of anything else you run across will be "authentic."

And yes, as spaced out says, the color registration can be off a bit -- which is why, in many cases, they are now available since they were rejects.

Posts: 572
From: Ridgecrest, CA - USA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 06-27-2007 10:16 AM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by Go4Launch:
So other than those two, I'd says almost 100% of anything else you run across will be "authentic."

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I have wondered for awhile what would keep someone from buying a roll of betacloth and silkscreening their own patches? It seems like they would make quite a bit of money.

By the way, it may not be very ethical (especially if you are selling them as vintage) but it would certainly be technically simple.

Posts: 101
From: Bryan, Texas USA
Registered: Jun 2005

posted 06-27-2007 11:53 AM               

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I've worried about this as well. I know of at least one roll of Apollo-era beta cloth that was auctioned off recently, and with the advances in computer graphics, etc., I wonder how hard it would really be for someone who was determined enough to cut new screens, match ink colors, and then start cranking these things out.

There have been rumors about this happening in the past, but I never knew if they were anything more than just that. Maybe someone out there who is a more knowledgeable expert on beta cloth, and has been collecting longer than I have could shed some light on this for us.

Posts: 227
From: Washington, DC USA
Registered: Dec 2006

Posts: 542
From: Seminole, Fla.
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 06-27-2007 08:57 PM               

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I've also heard rumors of remakes, but have never seen any evidence. I think it may be a "space urban legend." I'm also not so sure it would be all that cost-effective. Apollo Beta panels seem to show up fairly regularly and can be had on eBay for (sometimes) as low as $40-$50 each. I also THINK they'd be pretty easy to spot, given the presumed difficulty of matching the colors and shades exactly (also figuring in the cost of the blank Beta cloth).

YankeeTraderBob seems to have a pretty good supply and sells on eBay, but I'm not aware of a source that you can simply order from.

Like other collectibles, these seemed extremely scare before the advent of the Internet. I've been amazed how many "extras" were made...

Posts: 572
From: Ridgecrest, CA - USA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 06-28-2007 10:25 AM            

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You would not need to get Apollo era beta cloth as there is still quite a bit of beta cloth manufactured today (and used in many space applications besides STS, ISS, and spacesuits) and it is not very expensive relatively speaking. It would also not be a big deal to color match as silk screening has been around for a long time.

I would be more concerned about the guys who seem to have an endless supply. How many of these beta cloth patches were made in the late 60s and early 70s??

It would be well worth it if you could get $40 - $100 or more for rare ones as it may cost about $3 each in small quantities to make.

To me this is also similar to kapton sales. Kapton is still widely used in space applications and is not very expensive yet people are always buying very small pieces for hundreds of dollars with dubious provinance. While there are many legitimate items out there I would almost never trust the guys who copy an original Williams COA and tell you they cut up the original.

Posts: 1104
From: Walsall, West Midlands, UK
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 06-28-2007 12:56 PM               

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I've also wondered just how many beta cloth emblems are out there. What was the need to print lots for each mission?

Is there a resource available detailing missions, number produced, number flown in space, to the moon, to the surface, etc.?

Posts: 42984
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 06-28-2007 01:41 PM               

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To my knowledge, no such compiled or public list exists. That said, a few astronauts have shared the quantity they carried or were given after their mission.

For example, according to a COA he provided for the Astronaut Scholarship Foundation's 2003 auction, Jim Lovell had 450 beta cloth patches inside his PPK on Apollo 13.

Other astronauts have revealed packages of 250 beta cloth patches each (unflown) that they were provided post mission for use as souvenirs.

Thus it wasn't like they produced just enough patches to attach to their suits and that was it. It would not surprise me if some missions carried as many as 1000 beta cloth patches, and that an equal number or greater were left on Earth.

Posts:
From:
Registered:

posted 07-15-2007 09:03 PM               

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I just bought the "From the Earth to the Moon" DVD set and began watching it for the first time this weekend.

After seeing about five hours of it, and dipping my toe into patch collecting, I started to wonder about how the some of the emblems on the pressure suit costumes were handled. The close-ups in the credits look pretty good to me. I admit I've not gotten down to the "freeze-frame" state yet, cause I just want to take the whole thing in. BUT after reading some of the things in this thread particularly, I wonder if anyone has touched on where the emblems for the miniseries were obtained, and what safeguards were in place to prevent duping of the beta cloth emblems.

Tried a search, but didn't come up with much.

Posts: 42984
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-11-2011 01:04 PM              

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Were all beta cloth mission patches made before missions, or were some made after, meaning, are there 'levels' of rarity for these.

I own and have seen beta cloth Apollo 11 patches that don't have the words 'Apollo 11' above the eagle. Thought I read somewhere these were either a prototype, or sold after missions as a collectible.

Can the process be repeated today, either manufacture of beta, or of taking a blank beta and applying a mission patch to it?

I've found these a real interesting collectible and am also trying to obtain a patch from each mission.

I've seen the NASA Meatball and American flag patches, I was also wondering what other non-mission beta patches might exist.

Editor's note: Threads merged.

Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 03-13-2011 01:48 PM              

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Huge help thanks!

Sounds like getting wrinkles out these is an exercise in futility.

Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003