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  [Discuss] NASA's Artemis-3 mission (Orion)

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Author Topic:   [Discuss] NASA's Artemis-3 mission (Orion)
Robert Pearlman
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posted 10-30-2019 01:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Please use this topic to discuss NASA's Artemis 3 mission, the first crewed flight to the surface of the moon since Apollo 17 in 1972.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 10-30-2019 01:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Artemis 3 mission plan, as it exists today, from the NASA Advisory Committee Human Exploration and Operations (HEO) meeting on Wednesday (Oct. 30).

YankeeClipper61
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posted 10-31-2019 12:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YankeeClipper61     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm trying to fully understand this mission. The Lunar Gateway has to be launched initially to get it in lunar orbit. Will the Human Landing System (HLS) be launched at the same time? Or is it another launch?

That being said, what about the return from the lunar surface? The HLS will dock at the Gateway when the astronauts leave the lunar surface. Will the HLS be discarded like the LM was or saved for another mission? If it's saved, that opens up a whole world of complexity to be dealt with, doesn't it?

Any thoughts?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 10-31-2019 12:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Gateway is planned to be assembled in lunar orbit with separate pieces arriving on separate launches (at first, a power and propulsion element and then a node/mini-hab).

The Human Landing System would then be launched to dock with the Gateway and await the arrival of Orion with the crew.

NASA does intend for the reuse of the HLS (or at least some of its elements). Those details are still be defined with the selection of an architecture/provider.

Blackarrow
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posted 11-01-2019 09:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good questions, and clearly more detail is needed, but, before you actually land on the Moon you have to have a plan, and at least this is a start.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 05-13-2020 12:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Artemis 3 mission plan, as it exists today, from the NASA Advisory Committee Human Exploration and Operations (HEO) meeting on Wednesday (May 13).

This version removes the Gateway from Artemis 3; the Gateway is now planned for launch in November 2023, but will not be used for the 2024 landing.

328KF
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posted 05-13-2020 06:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 328KF   Click Here to Email 328KF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Could that chart be a little more confusing? Given that they’ve now said no Gateway for Artemis III, are the red events now deleted?

And since the lander will not be staged at the Gateway, does it launch with Orion or separately for an Earth orbit rendezvous scenario?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 05-13-2020 07:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
According to Doug Loverro (Human Exploration and Operations), the plan is to still launch Orion and the Human Landing System separately. They will both fly to a Near Rectilinear Halo Orbit* (NRHO) and dock there to transfer the crew, without using the Gateway.

* Loverro acknowledged that NASA is studying other orbits as an alternative to NRHO, but has yet to find a better approach.

Headshot
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posted 07-07-2020 05:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has NASA provided its detailed cost estimate to land an Artemis crew on the moon by 2024 to the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice and Science? I believe they requested this detailed cost estimate from NASA on several occasions, some of which were last year. The last I heard of this matter, the detailed cost estimates were supposed to be turned over in late March, or very soon thereafter, of this year.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-07-2020 06:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The cost estimate was delayed when Loverro left the agency. Now Kathy Lueders is being given time to review and revise the plan as she feels is merited.

In response to the delay, the U.S. House of Representatives Appropriations Committee limited NASA's spending on exploration:

Not more than 40 percent of the amounts made available in this Act for the Gateway; Advanced Cislunar and Surface Capabilities; Commercial LEO Development; Human Landing System; and Lunar Discovery and Exploration, excluding the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, may be obligated until the Administrator submits a multi-year plan to the Committees on Appropriations of the House of Representatives and the Senate that identifies estimated dates, by fiscal year, for Space Launch System flights to build the Gateway; the commencement of partnerships with commercial entities for additional LEO missions to land humans and rovers on the Moon; and conducting additional scientific activities on the Moon. The multi-year plan shall include key milestones to be met by fiscal year to achieve goals for each of the lunar programs described in the previous sentence and funding required by fiscal year to achieve such milestones.

SpaceAholic
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posted 08-20-2020 11:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA video
A crew module cone panel with openings for windows – which will provide that spectacular view – is ready for shipment to NASA’s Michoud Assembly Facility near New Orleans, Louisiana, for welding as part of Orion’s pressure vessel. The panel was designed by Orion’s prime contractor, Lockheed Martin of Denver, Colorado, and manufactured by AMRO Fabricating Corp., of South El Monte, California. It is the first element of the Artemis III crew module to be machined.

To acknowledge the milestone, leaders from NASA, Lockheed, and AMRO recently showcased Orion’s progress through a video looking at the manufacturing process and hardware at AMRO. Participants included NASA’s Howard Hu, Lockheed Martin Vice President for Human Space Exploration and Orion Program Manager Mike Hawes, and AMRO CEO Mike Riley.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 09-16-2020 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine suggested Sept. 14 that NASA would be open to sending Artemis 3 to a location other than the south pole of the moon, including revisiting an Apollo landing site, reports SpaceNews.
"If you're going to go to the equatorial region again, how are you going to learn the most? You could argue that you'll learn the most by going to the places where we put gear in the past," he said, referring to the equipment left behind at the Apollo landing sites.

"There could be scientific discoveries there and, of course, just the inspiration of going back to an original Apollo site would be pretty amazing as well," he said. He also cited creating "norms of behavior" for protecting those sites from other expeditions.

Bridenstine treated a landing away from the south pole as, for now, a hypothetical scenario. "If we made a determination that the south pole might be out of reach for Artemis 3, which I'm not saying it is or isn't," then a landing near an Apollo site might be an option, he said. "Those decisions haven't been made at this time."

Headshot
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posted 09-16-2020 04:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rather than an Apollo landing site, NASA should seriously consider sending Artemis 3 to Tycho, specifically the Surveyor 7 landing site. This has the advantages of:
  1. Conducting a landing toward, but not at, the lunar South Pole.
  2. Landing outside the Apollo operational envelope.
  3. Bringing home samples that would verify Surveyor 7's remote findings.
  4. Returning parts of Surveyor, which will have endured the lunar environment for 56 years (assuming a 2024 Artemis landing).
  5. Exploring an area near a large, young lunar impact crater.

oly
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posted 09-16-2020 07:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am all for selecting one of the Apollo landing sites to revisit.

While a Surveyor site does provide the opportunity to return Surveyor hardware that has been left there for so long, an Apollo site provides more opportunity to study a wider range of equipment and the site has well documented history for comparison and for locating study targets.

Questions about how the Lunar Module launch impacted the materials left behind, the effects of long duration exposure to a wider range of materials, including the rover batteries.

Looking at rocks that had previous samples chipped away, and being able to take another sample 50 years later for comparison, and even the discarded trash and byproducts left behind by humans could provide valuable data.

Questions that have been the subject of discussion for many years could be answered (including the brand of golf ball and the true distance of that shot), the effects of 50 years of lunar environment on photographic film, or what remains of an American flag.

Being able to follow up on questions raised after the initial exploration of a site can be helpful for the scientific investigators, and engineers and benefit from learning how materials and equipment survive long duration exposure.

Revisiting a site would also feed the natural curiosity of many people and help determine how fragile the Apollo landing sites are. what measures are required to preserve the sites into the future.

Plus, returning some of the equipment would make for a great addition to the National Air and Space Museum collection.

Delta7
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posted 09-16-2020 08:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It would be really neat if they landed where one of the four currently remaining moonwalkers was able to observe where they walked as a guest in mission control. God willing.

Headshot
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posted 09-19-2020 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Will the Artemis 3 lander be equipped with a lunar rover? If not, that will certainly limit useful landing site candidates.

Also, unless my memory is faulty, I read that the Artemis 3 lander will have a crew of only two. Is that still the current plan?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 09-21-2020 03:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Per The Artemis Plan, released by NASA today (Sept. 21):
In addition to two crew, the HLS will carry up to 220 lbs (100 kg) of science tools and equipment to the surface, with the goal of returning up to 87.5 lbs (35 kg) of samples.
As for the Artemis 3 landing site, NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine said today (via Twitter) that the mission is still aimed at the South Pole. Per the plan:
The exact landing site for Artemis III astronauts depends on several factors, including the specific science objectives and the launch date.

The agency is working with the global science community to study different regions that provide key desired traits: access to significant sunlight, which provides minimal temperature variations and potentially the only power source; continuous line-of-sight to Earth for mission support communications; mild grading and surface debris for safe landing and walking or roving mobility; and close proximity to permanently shadowed regions, some of which are believed to contain resources such as water ice.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 09-21-2020 05:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine further clarified about the Artemis 3 landing site during a media telecon today (Sept. 21):
To be clear, we are going to the south pole. There is no talk or trades or anything about anything else than going to the south pole at NASA.

It came up in a LEAG meeting, which is the Lunar Exploration Advisory Group, somebody asked me, "Wouldn't it be a good idea to go to an Apollo legacy site?" or something like that. The way I answered was, Where we are going is the south pole, that is where we are going. I think I said something like, 'You know if it were to be determined we could not get to the south pole, then that would be something to look at.' From that, somebody tweeted something and it became a story.

Right now we have no plans for Artemis 3 for anything other than the south pole.

Headshot
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posted 09-22-2020 07:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unless I missed something in the report, aside from the landing site at the Lunar South Pole, Artemis III looks to be as capable as an Apollo H (12 or 14) mission.

Blackarrow
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posted 09-23-2020 04:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With any new system, it's probably wise to limit activity on the first mission. Besides, if the aim is to land in "...close proximity to permanently-shadowed regions" then the astronauts would not need to venture too far from their lander. Their goal would be right on their door-step. Conrad and Bean didn't need a rover to reach Surveyor 3.

It would be fascinating to learn if the astronauts would have the capability of venturing down into a permanently-shadowed crater to search for ice or other volatiles at or just below the surface. I suppose it would depend on several factors, not least the capability of the new suits to keep the wearers warm.

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