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Author
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Topic: [Discuss] Artemis III (Orion/Starship HLS)
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Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 55385
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-27-2022 08:47 PM
   
quote:
Originally posted by 328KF:
...as if this is a requirement?
Because until this past week, NASA was never clear about the issue, so most in the press (myself included) assumed there was a requirement. On Friday (Aug. 19), during an Artemis briefing, Marcia Dunn with the Associated Press asked, "I know you mentioned the first woman is going to be on this crew, but we also keep hearing about the first person of color. Is that a requirement for the first landing crew? Is it a desire? Or it is TBD?" Mark Kirasich, NASA's deputy associate administrator for the Artemis Campaign Development Division, replied: So we know on the first mission, we're going to land a woman, and whether or not that woman will be a person of color or either of the two crew members will be a person of color, that's not a mandatory requirement for the first mission. It could happen. It could be one of the subsequent missions. |
Headshot
Member Posts: 1431
From: Vancouver, WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 08-27-2022 08:56 PM
I am getting a bit confused. With Artemis III using SpaceX's Human Landing System, will all four crew members land on the Moon, or will it be a lesser number. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 55385
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-27-2022 09:13 PM
On all currently planned Artemis missions, two crew members will stay in orbit aboard Orion or, once deployed, Gateway, and two will descend to the surface. Eventually, once there is some type of architecture on the lunar surface (more than a lunar terrain vehicle), it's possible all four astronauts will land. |
Headshot
Member Posts: 1431
From: Vancouver, WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 01-30-2023 01:42 PM
Is a crew position on the Artemis III mission "reserved" for a Canadian or ESA astronaut?Just curious. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 55385
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-30-2023 01:58 PM
As of now, the Artemis III crew is expected to be all U.S. astronauts. |
Spaceflyer
Member Posts: 223
From: Nauheim, Germany
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 01-31-2023 02:49 AM
ESA astronauts will fly on Artemis IV, V and VI. |
Delta7
Member Posts: 1787
From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted 04-03-2023 12:45 PM
With the Artemis II now known, I suspect this means Randolph Bresnik will command Artemis III and land on the moon with... Anne McClain with her helicopter experience? |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 2015
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 04-03-2023 12:47 PM
Helicopter experience will not be needed. It will be automated like the Dragon spacecraft. |
Delta7
Member Posts: 1787
From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted 04-03-2023 12:48 PM
Numerous NASA astronauts have been undergoing helicopter training specifically for that purpose. I've seen social media posts directly from astronauts including Reid Wiseman, Victor Glover, Christina Koch, Jessica Meir, and just a couple of days ago Raja Chari and Stan Love, about helicopter training in preparation for Artemis. I realize they won't be landing hands-on but apparently NASA considers that skill beneficial to a lunar landing assignment. It would follow that at least for the first landing they would have at least one crewmember with extensive helicopter experience. McClain fits the bill. Again, speculation... |
YankeeClipper61
New Member Posts: 8
From:
Registered: Jan 2016
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posted 04-04-2023 01:21 PM
Speaking of landing...How's the development of the new lander coming? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 55385
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-07-2023 04:24 PM
See the updates under the SpaceX Starship and Super Heavy discussion thread. SpaceX is focusing on first getting its launch architecture flying before developing HLS-specific hardware. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 5520
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-09-2023 11:26 AM
Shocker (not): NASA's Artemis III mission might not involve a crewed landing. Jim Free, the space agency's associate administrator for the Exploration Systems Development Mission Directorate, told reporters in a briefing that certain key elements would have to be in place — notably the landing system that is being developed by SpaceX.Should that not be ready on time, "We may end up flying a different mission," he said. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 55385
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-09-2024 12:45 PM
NASA today confirmed that the first crewed landing will take place on Artemis III, but has re-targeted the mission to September 2026. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 5520
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-10-2024 02:36 AM
Blue Origin has an opportunity to up its game; set the conditions for a subsequent decision to modify the flight test regime so that it preempts Starship as that HLS development continues to further slip right beyond 2026. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 55385
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-11-2024 04:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by YankeeClipper61:
Speaking of landing...
According to today's FY 2025 NASA budget request, both the uncrewed demonstration of SpaceX's Starship HLS and the Artemis II crewed lunar landing at now both targeted for 2026. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 55385
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-05-2024 12:18 PM
Per NASA Administrator Bill Nelson today: Assuming the SpaceX lander is ready, we plan to launch Artemis III in mid-2027. |
dom
Member Posts: 1136
From:
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 03-21-2025 04:06 PM
NASA has dropped its longstanding public commitment to land the first woman and person of color on the moon, in response to Donald Trump's directives to eliminate diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) practices at federal agencies. The Artemis landing page of NASA's website previously included the words: NASA will land the first woman, first person of color, and first international partner astronaut on the Moon using innovative technologies to explore more of the lunar surface than ever before."The version of the page live on the website on Friday, however, appears with the phrase removed. NASA spokesperson Allard Beutel said in a statement emailed to the Guardian: "In keeping with the president's executive order, we're updating our language regarding plans to send crew to the lunar surface as part of NASA's Artemis campaign. We look forward to learning more from [and] about the Trump administration's plans for our agency and expanding exploration at the moon and Mars for the benefit of all." |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 55385
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-22-2025 06:30 AM
This is wrong on so many levels (not the article, but the policy), but I also have to believe the end result will be the same. There are enough members of Congress and White House spokespeople who have gone on record as saying they don't want to hand China any victories in space. So, if they hold to that, there is no way that the U.S. will cede the records of first woman, first person of color and first international astronaut on the moon to a Chinese mission. Besides, given the very capable members of NASA's current astronaut corps, I cannot imagine a mission today that doesn't reflect the diversity of not just the astronaut office, but American society at large. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 5520
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-22-2025 06:50 AM
The end result will be the most qualified fly the missions and that a color blind and gender agnostic process will be applied to not exclude or discriminate against candidates who are most prepared to serve as successful crew members simply because they were born with "incorrect" skin color or sex. As you stated the outcome will likely remain the same (a diverse crew). |
dom
Member Posts: 1136
From:
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 03-22-2025 06:56 AM
Unfortunately, NASA doesn’t appear to be in the inspiration game anymore. I’m sure China will take up the challenge of impressing people of colour in Africa and encouraging young women to go into science careers by flying a woman to the moon. An own goal on the part of the United States once again… |
Space Cadet Carl
Member Posts: 308
From: Lake Orion, MI
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 03-31-2025 05:08 PM
As of right now, I'm really concerned over rhetoric coming out of Washington DC that we'll just totally skip going back to the Moon with Artemis and instead concentrate on sending Americans straight to Mars. That type of talk seems preposterous to me. |
oly
Member Posts: 1509
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 04-07-2025 05:26 AM
NASA is in no way prepared to go to Mars by skipping the whole learning to live on the Moon phase first. Things like learning to use suits outside for long duration/multiple use, in situ resource exploration, extraction, and development to make things like shelters and structures, and building habitats and communities are far easier when the destination is a few days away compared to a few months away. |
davidcwagner
Member Posts: 1167
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 04-07-2025 01:09 PM
It is not about Mars. Phobos and Deimos are the most important real estate in the solar system. Land on both in 2028, God willing.
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Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3893
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 04-08-2025 12:16 PM
Over 40 years ago I made a bet with a fellow space enthusiast about the first human visit to Mars. The prize is a magnum of Dom Perignon champagne (at current prices probably around $400). He said that going to Mars is such a big deal that nobody would go all that way without attempting to land. I said the first visit would orbit Mars and make a landing on Phobos. There was a time when I was sure I would win (maybe posthumously!) but with the arrival of SpaceX, I'm not so sure now! But first the Moon! |
Headshot
Member Posts: 1431
From: Vancouver, WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 04-10-2025 05:03 PM
Any idea when the Artemis III crew will be named? |
Headshot
Member Posts: 1431
From: Vancouver, WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 08-26-2025 04:02 PM
Yesterday during the Starship 10 non-launch coverage, one of the commentators was discussing Starship HLS and mentioned that there is an on-going dispute between NASA astronauts and SpaceX concerning the control/piloting system of Starship HLS. Apparently the astronauts want some sort of manual control feature, while SpaceX is insisting on a totally autonomous landing system with no significant input from the crew.Has anyone else heard about this? How long has this been going on, if true? How serious is this impasse? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 55385
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-26-2025 05:58 PM
I don't recall there being any discussion of Starship HLS on the official SpaceX webcast, but Stephen Clark of Ars Technica was on Spaceflight Now's broadcast and mentioned his interview with Lisa Watson-Morgan, the NASA engineer overseeing the agency's Artemis contract with SpaceX. Back in January, she said: There are a lot of crew systems that are being developed now. We're in work with them on how we're going to effectuate the crew manual control requirements that we have, so it's been a great balance to see what the crew needs, given the size of the ship. That's been a great set of work. We have crew office hours where the crew travels to Hawthorne and works one-on-one with the different responsible engineers in the different technical disciplines to make sure that they understand not just little words on the paper from a requirement, but actually what this means, and then how systems can be operated. |
Headshot
Member Posts: 1431
From: Vancouver, WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 08-26-2025 06:21 PM
What I heard occurred during that broadcast yesterday, but from the context, this issue sounded more recent. Unfortunately, I did not hear the name of the person who was relating this info. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 55385
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-20-2025 09:47 AM
No further details as of yet, but from acting NASA Administrator Sean Duffy: SpaceX has the contract to build the HLS which will get U.S. astronauts there on Artemis III. But, competition and innovation are the keys to our dominance in space so NASA is opening up HLS production to Blue Origin and other great American companies. |
issman1
Member Posts: 1201
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 10-20-2025 10:30 AM
Will the acting NASA administrator divulge anything about the current progress of SpaceX's HLS without infringing upon any existing intellectual property non disclosure agreements? Possible grounds for a lawsuit -- so may be he can't or won't say anything.Would U.S. space journalists making a Freedom Of Information request have a different outcome? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 55385
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-20-2025 11:37 AM
I do not think SpaceX (or NASA) is hiding anything: what we have all seen is the status of Starship (HLS or otherwise). There was also the update about astronauts working on control system layouts and elevator concepts. SpaceX's next focus is to achieve orbital spaceflight and then begin refueling test flights. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3893
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-20-2025 04:41 PM
Right back to the days of Mercury, astronauts have wanted manual controls, or at least the option of a manual override. As far as I recall, every manned spacecraft, from Vostok to Apollo, from shuttle to Dragon, has been launched into space under automatic control. (But I recall Gene Cernan on Apollo 17 insisting that if his Saturn V's computer had failed, he could steer the stack into orbit manually.) It could be argued that landing a spacecraft on the Moon should also be trusted to automatic controls (at a time when automatic systems are so much more efficient than 50 years ago). Of course, every Apollo lunar landing was conducted by the commander in a "semi-automatic" mode. More than 50 years later, the computerized landing systems are so much better and more accurate, but astronauts are still pilots and will still want the comfort of a manual (or semi-automatic) option if the computer is aiming into a boulder-field, or something like that. I can't envisage any astronaut in a lunar landing vehicle being willing to "lie back and think positive thoughts" as the computer does all of the work. Recent unmanned lunar landing attempts show that even modern computers can get it wrong. |
issman1
Member Posts: 1201
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 10-21-2025 01:41 AM
Looks as though Elon Musk was appalled by Duffy's inference that SpaceX HLS is no longer required by NASA. SpaceX is moving like lightning compared to the rest of the space industry. Moreover, Starship will end up doing the whole Moon mission. Mark my words. Many astronauts might end up being spectators in Houston than participants on the Moon. |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 2015
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 10-21-2025 09:22 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Blackarrow:
Recent unmanned lunar landing attempts show that even modern computers can get it wrong.
Not relevant, those were newcomers. How many launch vehicle landings has SpaceX performed?As far as controls, it may only be he ability to redesignate the landing spot versus actual six-axis control. quote:
Originally posted by issman1:
Would U.S. space journalists making a Freedom Of Information request have a different outcome?
Doesn't work for propriety information or contract terms. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 55385
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-21-2025 10:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by issman1:
Many astronauts might end up being spectators in Houston than participants on the Moon.
I am not sure how you are reaching that conclusion, but I am pretty sure that when it was said "Starship will end up doing the whole Moon mission," Elon Musk was referring only to providing the vehicle, not the crew. |
issman1
Member Posts: 1201
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 10-21-2025 11:11 AM
It could mean that Starship might be discarded for some other lander, then China would have a clear path.Anyway, why would Musk need NASA astronauts when he could use his own personnel? Duffy's odd suggestion to integrate NASA into the U.S. Department of Transportation might even accelerate things. Something similar happened to the UK Space Agency and there was no outcry. |
onesmallstep
Member Posts: 1544
From: Staten Island, New York USA
Registered: Nov 2007
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posted 10-21-2025 02:36 PM
Why would integrating NASA into the U.S. DOT 'accelerate things'? SLS/Artemis is into its second decade of existence; it has an uncrewed flight under its belt; Orion spacecraft Integrity has been stacked in the VAB; launch could come as early as next Feb. The problem with delays is technical requirements, funding and politics, as usual. NASA was created as a research and exploration agency, not a taxi service (that's why LEO missions are now on commercial providers). If Blue Origin or another contractor can deliver and test a lander before SpaceX, it wouldn't be the first time one company has overtaken another (see: Crew Dragon vs. Starliner). As for SpaceX going it alone and using their own 'astronauts,' I don't think there are any spaceflight-experienced personnel on their roster (three ex-SpaceX employees did join NASA's astronaut corps: one dropped out; one is waiting his first flight; a third was just chosen — coincidentally the wife of the aforementioned astronaut). If it were purely a commercial venture, then Musk is free to do what he wants; but in this case Artemis III is a NASA effort so their astronauts (or from CSA, JAXA, ESA etc.) will be used. |
issman1
Member Posts: 1201
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 10-21-2025 03:40 PM
The length of time it has taken to get to this point is the problem, thus NASA is no longer fit for purpose in its present guise.And even if Artemis II is successful no professional American, Canadian, European or Japanese astronaut will likely be landing on the moon in a Starship HLS. So why shouldn't Musk try pre-empting Artemis III (or China) with a crew of SpaceX moonwalkers? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 55385
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-21-2025 04:22 PM
SpaceX has no interest in the moon, as Elon Musk has said many times. They competed for the Artemis contract to help fund development of Starship, advancing the company's own focus on Mars. If NASA was not its customer, SpaceX would not be developing a lunar human landing system.It does seem that the SpaceX HLS has a long way to go before anyone will be flying on it, which is why other options are now being floated as just that, options. But even that could be unnecessary. |
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