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Author Topic:   Gemini 5 mission patch ('8 Days or Bust')
Robert Pearlman
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Posts: 43576
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-24-2015 01:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
collectSPACE
'8 Days or Bust' +50 years: Gemini 5 made history with first crew mission patch

...the Gemini 5 mission's planned length was more than just an attempt at a record but a test itself, designed to show that astronauts could survive the time needed for a trip to the moon and back.

Cooper and Conrad chose to underline that particular goal while setting yet another American first in space.

Sewn to the right chest of each of their spacesuits was a cloth emblem depicting a Conestoga wagon. Embroidered in red lettering was their mission designation ("Gemini 5") and their names. And hidden under a thin piece of hastily-added cloth was the inscription, "8 Days of Bust."

Cooper and Conrad were sporting the first-ever astronaut-designed space mission patch.

SpaceFerris
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Posts: 57
From: Thornville, OH
Registered: Mar 2015

posted 08-25-2015 09:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceFerris   Click Here to Email SpaceFerris     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As this is a very hard to find and expensive vintage patch (Gemini 5 crew souvenir), it would be a perfect choice for Chris Spain to produce for sale on his Crew Patches website. I for one would commit to buy a couple.

Robert Pearlman
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Posts: 43576
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-25-2015 10:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
AB Emblem, in conjunction with Gene Dorr, produced an excellent replica of the original Gemini 5 patch, complete with cloth sewn over the "8 Days or Bust."

Robert Pearlman
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Posts: 43576
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-25-2015 10:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Speaking of the original Gemini 5 patches though, there is the apparent manner of Pete Conrad's missing flight-worn patch.

Conrad shared in a letter to John Bisney (cS: Go4Launch):

...the patches were removed from the suit sometime after recovery and prior to the arrival back in Houston. We did not see them after we got back on the (recovery) ship, and they were never returned to us; I'm assuming they were stolen.
Conrad was either unaware or had forgotten that NASA photographed Gordon Cooper's patch soon after the flight. And we know that the same patch was later auctioned by Superior in 1995 and resold by Heritage in 2012.

So, has anyone ever seen another Gemini 5 patch that appeared to be one of the originals with the fabric still covering the "8 Days or Bust" slogan?

Tallpaul
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From: Rocky Point, NY, USA
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 08-25-2015 08:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tallpaul   Click Here to Email Tallpaul     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I followed the link to Heritage and it is very interesting to read the description of how Conrad and Cooper came up with the idea of the patch and its actual design. What I find to be really fascinating is that there is an excerpt from "Leap of Faith" in which Cooper describes giving the patch to a manufacturer who produced 100s of them.

An authentic Gemini patch is incredibly rare, so a reasonable question is, if there were 100s produced, what happened to all of them? The Space Flown Artifacts site shows sales of just 14 patches, including the twice-sold one from Cooper's spacesuit.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 43576
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-25-2015 08:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It should be noted that the patches Cooper and Conrad wore were of a different construction than the other crew-flown and sourced "souvenir" patches. The hundreds described by Cooper in "Leap of Faith" are by all accounts of the latter manufacture.

That said, by Cooper's own admission, his "Leap of Faith" co-author took liberties with what Cooper told him to build out the stories in the book, so whether hundreds were actually ever produced is open to question.

From the hundreds to the one, it would be interesting to find out what happened to the single patch that Cooper sent to Webb after their dinner together before the launch...

Go4Launch
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Posts: 549
From: Seminole, Fla.
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 08-25-2015 09:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Go4Launch   Click Here to Email Go4Launch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Robert that the "hundreds" reference is questionable. It is true, however, that surprisingly few have surfaced at auction had even 50 been made.

This second run also came in two otherwise-identical versions: some included the motto (as the top photo in Robert's story shows); the rest did not, illustrating the practical result of Webb’s memo. A photo of one (with motto) was used in a 1968 Life magazine article, the first widespread publicity NASA crew patches received.

Examples of these from Cooper’s and Conrad’s personal collections were sold privately or at auctions in the 1990s (far more with the motto than without). In some cases, each astronaut identified them as carried on the flight, though that at least raises the question of why “blank” versions weren’t used on the suits if they’d been made during the week between Webb’s memo and launch (there was no reason for the crew have had any “blank” ones made before his memo).

According to suit tech Al Rochford, he could have replaced patches even the day before the flight. Also, Webb's memo had left an out, conceding it might not be possible to get them remade in time. Finally, why didn’t the astronauts wear any version of their special patch on their jumpsuits aboard USS Lake Champlain, had they been available?

Conrad also did not mention any patches when he described looking through his PPK during the flight, although he did mention bringing some US flags.

Conrad, who didn’t get his patch returned, would have had an incentive to get at least one more made if no more originals existed. Indeed, both men later wore examples from the second batch (with the motto) on their flight jackets, not “originals.”

In addition, by ordering a second batch later (some without the motto) the crewmen would have matching sets depicting the patches both as they originally intended, and as worn on the flight.

Finally, both suit patches had clear differences between them. Cooper’s was embroidered through a layer of white material that tended to bulge, while Conrad’s patch included two additional horizontal lines on the wagon’s cask. The front wagon wheel spokes were also slightly different between the two flight patches. Neither crewman could explain the discrepancies, but I think it's because just these two were made individually. Cooper told me perhaps about ten "originals" were made, partly because NASA approval was by no means certain, but no matching patches have ever surfaced. Perhaps they were the samples the patch company first made, but that's just speculation.

I realize this theory contradicts auction-related claims by the crewmen that some were flown, but the evidence points away from that to me.

GoesTo11
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Posts: 1317
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 08-25-2015 10:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
AB Emblem, in conjunction with Gene Dorr, produced an excellent replica of the original Gemini 5 patch, complete with cloth sewn over the "8 Days or Bust."
As an aside, I don't generally follow auctions, so that Heritage pic of Cooper's patch is the first high-quality one I've seen... the NASA pic Robert also posted is a pretty poor depiction. The auction lot photo shows what a good job AB and Gene Dorr did with their replica.

SpaceFerris
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Posts: 57
From: Thornville, OH
Registered: Mar 2015

posted 08-26-2015 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceFerris   Click Here to Email SpaceFerris     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
AB Emblem, in conjunction with Gene Dorr, produced an excellent replica of the original Gemini 5 patch, complete with cloth sewn over the "8 Days or Bust."
Thanks Robert. I do have that replica of the crew along with the Eagle One version. I am suggesting making a replica of the "Gemini 5 Crew Souvenir Patch." It is different as described on crewpatches.com as follows:
This design is easily identified by the large Gemini 5 text at the top which divides the brown inner border.
The upper and lower case letters in "8 Days or Bust" also differs on the souvenir version compared to the crew patch. All upper case letters on the souvenir version compared to "8 Days Or Bust" on the crew.

Considering it goes rarely at auctions for over a $1000 dollars, it would be the only way someone like myself could collect it.

LM-12
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From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 08-26-2015 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This photo of Pete Conrad in the recovery helicopter provides a good view of his Gemini 5 patch.

SpaceFerris
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Posts: 57
From: Thornville, OH
Registered: Mar 2015

posted 08-26-2015 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceFerris   Click Here to Email SpaceFerris     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I realize it could be the lighting inside the SAR helicopter, but I have always had the opinion that Pete's crew patch is different from Gordo's in color and materials. Pete's appears to made of a black wagon wheel with gray tones to the wagon body and spokes, whereas Gordo's has browns in those gray areas.

Also unless it was treated differently by the safety harness wearing on the patches or not, but Pete's has no evidence of sagging material or folds at all unlike Gordo's.

I am shocked and disappointed to hear Pete's is missing and did not realize that was the case until reading this thread. A piece of history and an heirloom for the Conrad family. He was one of the best pilots in the program.

Marwin2
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Registered: Oct 2006

posted 10-08-2016 05:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marwin2   Click Here to Email Marwin2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When was promulgated "8 days or Bust" inscription after flight?

Mike Dixon
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From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 10-08-2016 06:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, it was there pre-flight, just hidden. See preceding posts.

Explorer1
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From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2019

posted 04-12-2020 09:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Explorer1   Click Here to Email Explorer1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On the Gemini 5 mission, Cooper and Conrad had a crew patch that showed a covered wagon. And there was a flap on the patch that when pulled would reveal the mission's motto - "Eight Days or Bust."

Cooper and Conrad were not suppose to reveal the hidden motto on the patch until they reached the 8 days mark in the mission. I have never seen a photograph showing the two astronauts with the motto revealed. Has anyone seen such a photo?

Editor's note: Threads merged.

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