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Forum:	Space Explorers & Workers
Topic:	Dyna-Soar (X-20) test pilots

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Your Reply: HTML is ON UBB Code is ON Smilies Legend	[QUOTE]Originally posted by albatron: [B]When Al Crews and I flew into San Diego together for Spacefest II, he pointed out the buildings to me as we landed. If I recall correctly, they were on the east side of the airport (on the airport proper), and some (of course) large buildings. [/B][/QUOTE]
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<table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="600"><TR><td bgcolor="#000000"><TABLE BORDER=0 cellpadding=4 border=0 cellspacing=1 WIDTH="100%"><TR bgcolor="#660000"><TD COLSPAN=2><CENTER>T O P I C     R E V I E W</CENTER></TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>East-Frisian</TD><TD>In August 1959, ten people where pre-selected for the Dyna-Soar program (seven USAF and three from NASA). Only seven test pilots were selected then in 1960 (four USAF and three NASA). I was asked, who were the three not selected USAF test pilots? Any names and dates?</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>Michael Cassutt</TD><TD>I've never seen a definitive list of the USAF test pilots who underwent "stress tests" at Wright-Patt for this program, but these four names have been suggested at various times: <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Charles C. Bock <LI>Walter F. Daniel <LI>Bud Evans <LI>Robert Rushworth</UL> Bud Anderson, head of fighter test ops at Edwards at the time, wrote that Rushworth was a candidate but didn't get selected. Whether he even made it to the tests, I don't know.</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>machbusterman</TD><TD>I might be wrong but believe that there were only six pilots selected for the X-20 program; Albert Crews (USAF), Henry Gordon (USAF), William Knight (USAF), Russell Rogers (USAF), Milton Thompson (NASA) and James Wood (USAF). The inscriptions on the below photograph would appear to back-up my convictions. <center><img src="http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL771/3008427/6107267/129002350.jpg" WIDTH="400"></center></TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>albatron</TD><TD>Michael knows far better than me of course, but I do believe the three NASA ones were Milt, Bill Dana and Neil Armstrong. The F5D Neil used for the approach tests for the X-20 is at his Museum in Ohio. </TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>Michael Cassutt</TD><TD> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by machbusterman: I might be wrong but believe that there were only six pilots selected for the X-20 program;<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> These six were announced in August 1962 or so. By that time, two of the original seven "pilot-consultants" who started working in 1960 — Dana and Armstrong — had left the program. Crews, in fact, replaced Armstrong. </TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>albatron</TD><TD>Bud Evans just confirmed with me, the lists as you see them here. </TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>John Charles</TD><TD>Sorry to be thick, but a couple of possible lists could be compiled from what was discussed here. Could you recap the definitive list as confirmed by Bud Evans?</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>Michael Cassutt</TD><TD>Yes, this is not clear. And, frankly, it may still be incomplete.It seems that in October-November 1959, a group of USAF test pilots (all from fighter test ops) were sent through "stress tests" at Wright-Patt to evaluate their suitability for Dyna-Soar.We are fairly sure of eight: <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Wood <LI>Rogers <LI>Knight <LI>Gordon <LI>Bock <LI>Daniel <LI>Rushworth <LI>Evans</UL> NASA test pilots Armstrong and Thompson did, too, which may explain the "ten pilot" number I've heard mentioned.I believe Bill Dana came along slightly later. Could be wrong about that. I know Al Crews was not considered for Dyna-Soar until around 1961. In any case, real work didn't start until late 1960.Does that help?</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>albatron</TD><TD>Through previous conversations I know you had it pegged better than anyone an was hoping you'd join back in. I'm sorry my posting was confusing, I meant to say Bud mentioned that as the names were previously posted, he felt were correct, but, he did not elaborate. Any idea why Bock, Daniel and Evans did not proceed further? </TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>Jake</TD><TD>In addition to the discussions above, there were a number of test pilots from Boeing who were assigned to the program at various times. Tex Johnson ("I'm gonna roll this 707") was chief test pilot for Boeing during the early days of the X-20 program and assigned various Boeing test pilots to support the program - from the contractor side for the house. Among other things, these Boeing test pilots assisted in developing the proposed approach-to-landing profiles by using jet fighters modified (with cardboard cutouts!) to simulate reduced pilot visibility. They simulated, in real flight, steep approach to landing profiles using only the visibility of small side windows such as the Dyna-Soar would have had...</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>albatron</TD><TD>GE had assigned some as well, I am still searching to see who they were (Bud Evans was for the MOL program). Any idea who the Boeing ones were? </TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>micropooz</TD><TD>Well, my wife Malinda surprised me with an amazing Christmas gift - a picture postcard of an Atlas, metered at the General Dynamics/Convair plant in San Diego on July 13, 1963, and autographed by the six Dyna-Soar pilots in training at the time. <center><img src="http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL846/454068/586514/294744584.jpg" WIDTH="400"></center>I am wondering if this card was metered and signed during a plant trip by the pilots that day. Why would the Dyna-Soar pilots be at the GD/Convair plant in July, 1963? I know the Martin Titan IIIC was already baselined as the booster for Dyna-Soar by then, but did read (in Jay Miller's "The X-Planes, X-1 to X-31") that Atlas-Centaur (both stages were GD/Convair products) was under consideration as the booster at some point in time. Also, there were studies going on then for more advanced versions of Dyna-Soar that may have needed GD's Centaur stage or other hydrogen fueled stages to get more performance. Or perhaps GD/Convair had some other piece of Dyna-Soar as a subcontractor to Boeing or Martin?I've combed Miller's book, and Robert Godwin's "Dyna-Soar Hypersonic Strategic Weapons System" and cannot find any more information on GD/Convair involvement in the program in 1963.So, my question for this astute community is this: Does anyone know what was happening at the GD/Convair plant on July 13, 1963, and more specifically if/how it could have tied into Dyna-Soar?</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>E2M Lem Man</TD><TD>I regret to add to the confusion, but I have a picture taken at Martin (but it could be Boeing, I guess) showing Neil Armstrong and other X-20 test pilots standing by the rear of a Winged Titan II mockup.That would date the picture as 60-61, wouldn't it?</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>capoetc</TD><TD>Nice video from the AFA convention in Las Vegas in 1962 showing the introduction of Wood, Gordon, Rogers, Thompson, Knight, and Crews as pilots of the X-20 project. <center><iframe width="400" height="301" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ulBkhQT1QX4?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

Henry Heatherbank

Does anybody know what became of the General Dynamics/Convair plant in San Diego? Where was it in San Diego?

albatron

When Al Crews and I flew into San Diego together for Spacefest II, he pointed out the buildings to me as we landed. If I recall correctly, they were on the east side of the airport (on the airport proper), and some (of course) large buildings.

albatron

quote:
Originally posted by capoetc:
Nice video from the AFA convention in Las Vegas in 1962 showing the introduction of Wood, Gordon, Rogers, Thompson, Knight, and Crews as pilots of the X-20 project.

I shared that video with Al Crews and Bud Evans (neighbors), they had not seen it before and were appreciative for it.

SpaceAholic

quote:
Originally posted by Henry Heatherbank:
Does anybody know what became of the General Dynamics/Convair plant in San Diego? Where was it in San Diego?

It's still operational adjacent to the downtown airport. The original complex is co-occupied by Lockheed Martin and the US Navy's Commander Naval Space and Warfare (SPAWAR). When I was at the plant last year they were still manufacturing the balloon tanks and the Centaur, some of the work on Atlas was moved up to the Denver plant.

capoetc

quote:
Originally posted by albatron:
I shared that video w/Al Crews and Bud Evans (neighbors), they had not seen it before and were appreciative for it.

I'm glad to hear that! I flew with Al Crews in my right seat (C-21A Learjet) on a TAL support mission in Banjul, The Gambia, back in the '90's. He was also at another TAL support (in Morocco) where the shuttle mission was scrubbed, so we didn't fly that time.

For the record, he still had really good hands.

albatron

I remember you telling me that, but not the good hands part. I'll pass that along.

Not surprised, the man's flown nearly everything and for a lot of years!

413 is in

quote:
Originally posted by capoetc:
Nice video from the AFA convention in Las Vegas in 1962 showing the introduction of Wood, Gordon, Rogers, Thompson, Knight, and Crews as pilots of the X-20 project.

That's a great video. A higher quality version of this presentation (minus the musical soundtrack) is also available on the Spacecraft Films "Man in Space" DVD.

Additionally, here's a photo outtake of Al Crews intended for use on his PAFB Atlantic Missile Range identification badge. Photo was taken during the Dyna-Soar days at the Cape.

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