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T O P I C R E V I E WFra MauroJust for the fun of speculation, who do you think the crew of Apollo 20 might have been?My guess is Stu Roosa as Commander, Don Lind as LMP and Ed Gibson as CMPRichieB16What about Joe Engle for LMP, or is it safe to assume that when Schmitt got put on 17, Engle would have gotten Apollo 18. Then again, if Apollo 20 would have flown, that probably would have ment that Engle would have flown on Apollo 17-I'm just confusing myself. Anyway, of those available unflown after Apollo 17, I think that Joe Engle would have been the best choice (remember, he was never officially on Apollo 18).cklofasIf the rotation held, the backup 17 crew, Young, Roosa and Duke would have flown on 20.RodinaYoung was there as a backup because he already flew and wasn't doing first-round training for a later flight -- he obviously wasn't in the rotation in any meaningful sense as a back up. In all events, I don't think -anyone- would have gotten a second lunar <i>landing</i> until every qualified astronaut had a shot at a first.Hell, Deke Slayton was practically back on flight status in time to do an Apollo 20. So, my vote is CDR Roosa, LMP Slayton and CMP Gibson. But then I'm making this up as I go.RichieB16OK, I spent a little time thinking about this (i'm bored-no homework tonight, lol). Let's assume that Apollo 17 had it's original crew of:CDR: Eugene CernanCMP: Ronald EvansLMP: Joe EngleThen, we must look at the planned crews for Apollo 18 & 19, I believe they were as follows: Apollo 18CDR: Richard GordonCMP: Vance BrandLMP: Harrison SchmittApollo 19CDR: Fred HaiseCMP: William PogueLMP: Gerald CarrThen, after looking at the three previous crews, I figure the crew of Apollo 20 would be the following:CDR: Stu RoosaCMP: Don LindLMP: Jack LousmaOther possible CMP canidates could be Deke Slayton or Paul Weitz. I don't think that Gibson would be a good choice for CMP because he was selected as a scientiest astronaut. It would have been better to use his medical skills in a different way, as they did on Skylab 2 (SL-2).[This message has been edited by RichieB16 (edited April 16, 2003).]J_GeentyThe crews for Apollo 17, 18 and 19 are exactly as Richie states. Apollo 20 has been discussed many times in many different places, but the candidates are;CDR - Stu Roosa, Edgar MitchellCMP - Paul WeitzLMP - Jack Lousma, Don LindSince 20 would have been the last lunar landing, I believe Roosa would have been CDR. I know that Mike Cassutt tends to favour Mitchell instead. But either is possible. CMP was only ever going to be Weitz. PJ was an experienced guy having done support work on previous missions. LMP was a choice between Lind and Lousma, both LM guys. Lousma had the greater experience on support crews and had already done a lot of time in the LM simulator. In all probabilty Lousma would have been on 20. If there had been an Apollo 21, Lind would probably have been assigned here, since that would also make him Jack Schmitt's backup on 18, a good situation all round. Most likely crew IMHO:CDR - Roosa/MitchellCMP - WeitzLMP - LousmaThere is no certain way of saying who would have been on 20, just educated guess work. RichieB16I doubt that Mitchell would have gotten command, simply because he had already walked on the moon. If they were going to send an already moon walker, I would have picked Conrad (a little off topic). But, thats why I think that Roosa would have been choosen over Mitchell.By the way, was their ever a landing picked for 20 or had they not planned that far ahead. Personally, I would have picked Tyco for the landing site.[This message has been edited by RichieB16 (edited April 17, 2003).]J_GeentyWith regard to Mitchell/Conrad first. Conrad was never really in the frame for Apollo 20 in any realistic sense from what has been said. True, he would have been a good commander, but if he had stayed in the rotation, the road from Apollo 12 would have lead to Apollo 18. The truth was that Stafford told him you only get to command one lunar landing flight, and they needed Conrad in Skylab. Pete probably considered Skylab the greater challenge too. Mitchell and Haise were the top guns in their group. If Apollo had been an open-ended program with further landings on the books, Mitchell would have been a good bet for Apollo 20. Myself, I back Roosa. Simply because if 20 is the last landing, its fairer to give someone their first shot, rather than another guy their second. Not that fairness played much of a part in astronaut crew selection ;-)As to landing sites, the short answer is no, not really. There were lists drawn up in 1969, but Apollo 20 was cancelled so early, that if never got a new site following the Apollo 13 shake-up. Worth remembering that if Apollo 15 and Apollo 19 had flown, all the other missions would have had different landing sites as well. Tycho is often mentioned for Apollo 20 and would have been a good site in geological terms. But Jim McDivitt said that astronauts would go to Tycho "over my dead body" due to its difficult landing conditions. In real life Apollo 17 was conducted in a very conservative "safety first" manner. I don't see Apollo 20 being any different if it is the last flight. TomSpeaking of Tom Stafford, I think he may have been a prime candidate to command Apollo 20. He definately was one of the most experienced CDR's and was still active in the astronaut corps.BMckayI think Mitchell might have ben bypassed for two reasons. one he already flew to the moon and walked on it and seciond his esp experiments didn't go over to well. J_GeentyWell, from what I've heard and read, Tom Stafford wasn't totally desperate to go to the moon. He'd gotten pretty close with Apollo 10 and had the option of remaining in the rotation and getting a lunar landing, but he turned it down. He wanted to move into management and start a different career thread. He took ASTP because it was something new and different and pretty high profile at the time. It was also the last chance to fly for a long time and suitable "final assignment" for Stafford. With regards to Mitchell. Yes, its true that his ESP and alternate science theories were not viewed that well by the old heads like Deke Slayton and Tom Stafford. However, Mitchell was a crackjack LMP, only Fred Haise could match him for knowledge of the LMs systems from the '66 class. He was also very very bright and generally considered a good astronaut. Mike Cassutt has said that Deke always intended to recycle certain LMPs like Haise and Mitchell to later CDR slots if they were free. If Apollo 20 had been on the cards, Mitchell may well have let the ESP stuff slide until after the assignment. I only prefer Roosa because with Apollo 20 as the last flight, it makes more sense to give someone a first chance on the moon, than anyone else a second. But don't under-estimate just how good Mitchell was. mark plaswasn t Jack Swigert high on the list of Slayton? In his book Slayton said he desurved another change to fly.And what about Bill Anders he only moved to DC because he was offeredan CMP job on an early lunar landing when all he wanted was a moonwalk. Well if apollo would have flown her missions till 20 he would have certainly had a change to become CDR.nasamad Haha, This reminds me of a thread that pops up on sci.space.history every now and again. I really don't think it will ever be agreed on who would have been on the Apollo crews after 17 ! (maybe 18 is easy) But its fun guessing........AdamFra MauroI'm not sure about Anders. Apollo 20 probably would have flown in 1974 and he would have been gone over 3 years. I am intrigued about Slayton flying on it. I will ask this question to my Space History class and see what the results are.
Hell, Deke Slayton was practically back on flight status in time to do an Apollo 20. So, my vote is CDR Roosa, LMP Slayton and CMP Gibson. But then I'm making this up as I go.
Then, we must look at the planned crews for Apollo 18 & 19, I believe they were as follows: Apollo 18CDR: Richard GordonCMP: Vance BrandLMP: Harrison Schmitt
Apollo 19CDR: Fred HaiseCMP: William PogueLMP: Gerald Carr
Then, after looking at the three previous crews, I figure the crew of Apollo 20 would be the following:CDR: Stu RoosaCMP: Don LindLMP: Jack Lousma
Other possible CMP canidates could be Deke Slayton or Paul Weitz. I don't think that Gibson would be a good choice for CMP because he was selected as a scientiest astronaut. It would have been better to use his medical skills in a different way, as they did on Skylab 2 (SL-2).
[This message has been edited by RichieB16 (edited April 16, 2003).]
CDR - Stu Roosa, Edgar MitchellCMP - Paul WeitzLMP - Jack Lousma, Don Lind
Since 20 would have been the last lunar landing, I believe Roosa would have been CDR. I know that Mike Cassutt tends to favour Mitchell instead. But either is possible. CMP was only ever going to be Weitz. PJ was an experienced guy having done support work on previous missions. LMP was a choice between Lind and Lousma, both LM guys. Lousma had the greater experience on support crews and had already done a lot of time in the LM simulator. In all probabilty Lousma would have been on 20. If there had been an Apollo 21, Lind would probably have been assigned here, since that would also make him Jack Schmitt's backup on 18, a good situation all round. Most likely crew IMHO:
CDR - Roosa/MitchellCMP - WeitzLMP - Lousma
There is no certain way of saying who would have been on 20, just educated guess work.
By the way, was their ever a landing picked for 20 or had they not planned that far ahead. Personally, I would have picked Tyco for the landing site.
[This message has been edited by RichieB16 (edited April 17, 2003).]
Mitchell and Haise were the top guns in their group. If Apollo had been an open-ended program with further landings on the books, Mitchell would have been a good bet for Apollo 20. Myself, I back Roosa. Simply because if 20 is the last landing, its fairer to give someone their first shot, rather than another guy their second. Not that fairness played much of a part in astronaut crew selection ;-)
As to landing sites, the short answer is no, not really. There were lists drawn up in 1969, but Apollo 20 was cancelled so early, that if never got a new site following the Apollo 13 shake-up. Worth remembering that if Apollo 15 and Apollo 19 had flown, all the other missions would have had different landing sites as well. Tycho is often mentioned for Apollo 20 and would have been a good site in geological terms. But Jim McDivitt said that astronauts would go to Tycho "over my dead body" due to its difficult landing conditions. In real life Apollo 17 was conducted in a very conservative "safety first" manner. I don't see Apollo 20 being any different if it is the last flight.
With regards to Mitchell. Yes, its true that his ESP and alternate science theories were not viewed that well by the old heads like Deke Slayton and Tom Stafford. However, Mitchell was a crackjack LMP, only Fred Haise could match him for knowledge of the LMs systems from the '66 class. He was also very very bright and generally considered a good astronaut. Mike Cassutt has said that Deke always intended to recycle certain LMPs like Haise and Mitchell to later CDR slots if they were free. If Apollo 20 had been on the cards, Mitchell may well have let the ESP stuff slide until after the assignment. I only prefer Roosa because with Apollo 20 as the last flight, it makes more sense to give someone a first chance on the moon, than anyone else a second. But don't under-estimate just how good Mitchell was.
But its fun guessing........
Adam
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