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Author
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Topic: Rarity of Jim Irwin "White Space Suit" (WSS) lithos
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benfairfax
Member Posts: 199
From: NSW Australia
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 07-16-2012 09:38 AM
   
Just curious, how rare are Jim Irwin WSS (White Space Suit) lithographs in all forms? I have three autopens and two unsigned. I have seen four for sale in three years that are uninscribed and two inscribed.  Astronaut Central has an uninscribed WSS for sale for 12K saying "This is the only one we've ever seen, signed or not." Am I sitting on a gold mine or is this a massive over estimate? |
Dougin SoCA
Member Posts: 111
From: Aliso Viejo, Ca, USA
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 07-16-2012 12:35 PM
I'm assuming you meant to type "un-inscribed" because I don't think autopens or unsigned images would be exactly a "goldmine". |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 07-16-2012 04:04 PM
I've seen about 8 (perhaps more) of these signed lithos sell in the past 5-6 years. Prices ranged from $1200-$4000 for most of them, depending on condition and whether they were inscribed or not. One recent example sold at RR Auction in January 2011 for $5800, which was the highest (paid) price I have ever seen for one.If Astronaut Cental has never seen one before (signed or unsigned), I have to wonder how hard they have been looking.  |
J.L
Member Posts: 674
From: Bloomington, Illinois, USA
Registered: May 2005
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posted 07-16-2012 04:12 PM
I agree that this is one of the tougher to find lithos... signed and un-signed. I was fortunate to get one signed many years ago.  |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 07-17-2012 03:56 AM
Got mine (uininscribed WSS) off Astro-Auction for ~$1,000 a few years ago. Rare, but not $12k rare. |
benfairfax
Member Posts: 199
From: NSW Australia
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 07-17-2012 06:53 AM
I'm just perplexed as to the price. 12K is crazy. An Irwin un-inscribed WSS litho is the only one missing in my collection. It a shame its so expensive at AC. |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 07-17-2012 11:06 AM
Shown here are four more Jim Irwin signed NASA WSS portrait lithos (scans of color copies), with the first three belonging to Ken Havekotte, and the first one signed for him in person. Certainly the inscriptions he added are superb.Many believe that Col. Irwin did sign a fair number of his WSS's, but with the large majority stashed away in collections, few surface for sale, resulting in them appearing rare and commanding high prices. Col. Irwin often personalized his WSS's, so his unpersonalized WSS's demand much higher prices, especially with the unpersonalized craze in the space hobby.  
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benfairfax
Member Posts: 199
From: NSW Australia
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 07-17-2012 05:23 PM
Those are awesome Bob, thanks for the insight. |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 09-25-2014 04:29 AM
Another uninscribed Irwin WSS sold for $5,693.50 at auction in March.I still don't think these are significantly rarer than an uninscribed Swigert WSS. I suspect a lot don't appear because people don't recognise him or the value. |
4allmankind
Member Posts: 1043
From: Dallas
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 09-25-2014 06:28 AM
I concur. We often discuss how rare the Irwin uninscribed WSS lithos are but from my basic research, Swigert is just as rare! |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 09-25-2014 07:26 AM
True, but remember that Irwin's WSS was as a LMP assigned to a lunar landing mission.Requests and demands for an Apollo moonwalker portrait of this type would probably far exceed that of Swigert as a last-minute stand-in (backup) for the CMP of Apollo 13. But, of course, from a rarity standpoint in comparison to Irwin and Swigert WSS portraits of flown Apollo spacemen, I would agree that Swigert may come in first
over Irwin and all other Apollo lunar landing mission astronauts. Maybe something like this from the rarest up front; Swigert, Irwin, Young, Mattingly and Evans maybe tied, Roosa, Duke, Cernan, and Scott. The others (Apollo 11-17 crewmen), I think, are pretty much common from what I have seen as a long-time collector. |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 09-25-2014 09:00 AM
Good points Ken. I'd certainly agree your list from an UNinscribed WSS point of view, with Young and Mattingly's rarity exacerbated by the seemingly few original WSS lithos in existence that could subsequently have been signed at Novaspace or at Mattingly's recent event in the UK. |
4allmankind
Member Posts: 1043
From: Dallas
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 09-25-2014 02:14 PM
I certainly agree with you there, Ken. Swigert's uninscribed WSS litho is I feel just as rare (or more?) than Irwin... but perhaps much less desirable. The moonwalkers are in a league of their own. |
deputydave1
Member Posts: 89
From: Loxahatchee, Florida, USA
Registered: May 2007
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posted 09-27-2014 10:46 AM
As an added note: An Irwin WSS inscribed is currently for sale at $2995 by respected dealer Spaceflori. I usually base current market value at what's for sale at a retail level as opposed to an "auction" price, as emotion and an "inexperienced" bidder can take a price anywhere. I agree with everyone on what makes a piece "rare." By the way, the Irwin WSS is marked down to $9995. I also find that in all my hobby purchases, when I find a dealer offering a higher price than the norm, it's usually a consignment piece. |
stsmithva
Member Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 09-27-2014 02:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by deputydave1:
I usually base current market value at what's for sale at a retail level as opposed to an "auction" price...
It's funny, I use the opposite method. A dealer can put the highest price he can dream a piece will sell for, while auction results of several similar items show what people are actually willing to pay. |
deputydave1
Member Posts: 89
From: Loxahatchee, Florida, USA
Registered: May 2007
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posted 09-28-2014 10:17 AM
Originally posted by stsmithva:
[...while auction results of several similar items show what people are actually willing to pay.Point well taken. Maybe better stated as: What is "selling" at a retail market. |
JoKepler
Member Posts: 515
From: Houston, Texas
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 09-28-2014 05:49 PM
I agree with Ken on his first six. I'd say... - Swigert
- Irwin
- Roosa
- Young
- Mattingly
- Evans
I don't view Duke, Cernan, and Scott as rare. Alan Shepard and Deke Slayton (uninscribed) would round out my toughest eight. |
4allmankind
Member Posts: 1043
From: Dallas
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 09-28-2014 06:17 PM
And if were talking uninscribed only, would Armstrong make the list? His dedicated lithos certainly far outnumber those without any salutation. |
Steve Zarelli
Member Posts: 731
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 09-28-2014 07:20 PM
In my opinion, Armstrong does not make the list. Most major auctions have at least one Armstrong unpersonalized example. I think it's a safe bet that between eBay and a handful of dealer sites, at least one or more are always available. Not rare or scarce, just expensive and less common than the dedicated counterparts. |
schnappsicle
Member Posts: 396
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 10-06-2014 04:44 AM
Perhaps the availability of undedicated Armstrong lithos can be attributed to people striking while the iron is hot. It wasn't that long ago when I could have purchased one for $2,600. They seem to have drastically shot up since. As for the Irwins, all I can say is he never sent me one. Back when I was writing him twice a year for autographed photos, he always sent me either the flag photo or one of him standing next to the Rover near the LM. At the time, those were the only photos I was interested in getting signed. After all, nothing says "astronaut" like a photo of him standing on the surface of the moon. To be perfectly honest, I still prefer a lunar surface signed photo over a WSS. Maybe I'm just weird, but I would much rather have a photo of an astronaut working in space as opposed to one of him or her posing in front of a camera here on earth. |
stsmithva
Member Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 10-06-2014 06:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by schnappsicle:
After all, nothing says "astronaut" like a photo of him standing on the surface of the moon.
I agree, but I think there are a number of reasons why collectors find the WSS portraits so appealing. They are a very specific item that feature the great majority of Apollo-era astronauts, so it's an interesting challenge to assemble the full collection. They show the astronauts' faces, unlike lunar surface photos. And finally, they just look really cool - suited up and ready to go. (I've heard that Irwin didn't care for the look of his WSS portrait, which if true baffles me. It's a great shot of him.)As for the lists above of which signed WSS portraits are the rarest, there is an uninscribed Mattingly WSS (a vintage official NASA litho in fine condition) in the RR auction ending on October 15th. I think we can assume that the consignor is a charming and delightful fellow who would be grateful if you'd take a look, and perhaps mention it to any collector you know has been trying to obtain such an item. |
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