posted 05-24-2005 03:25 PM               

There are very few items signed by all the Moonwalkers-- I have heard estimates of 20-25 at most, and if they come up for sale they are beyond my budget. While the print is not cheap, it is a lot less.

I have not framed it up to now with hope of adding Scott, Young, and Armstrong. If Armstrong does not change his policy, then I'll frame it along with a space cover I have signed by Armstrong.

In my collection I have covers, lithos and posters, so the fact that this is a print does not bother me. The Association of Space Explorers offers autographed posters from their meetings with signatures of many of the Apollo astronauts (ALdrin, Collins, Lovell, Stafford, Roosa, Eisele etc). See their website. However, the Moonwalkers print is the only one I know of where the autographs are all together.

That's my thoughts-- I'm interested in what others think.

posted 05-24-2005 04:15 PM               

As far as items signed by all 12 moonwalkers, probably the total is higher than the 20-30 guessed at. Probably a lot of NASA "insiders" had items signed by all 12 as the missions occurred. Maybe even some of the astronauts did, too. There is probably a lot more of these complete (12/12) moonwalker signed items than believed IMO.

And another thing that we collectors should keep in mind is the authenticity of any items signed by all 12. Forgers and sellers are well aware of the difference financially between something signed by 11, without Armstrong, ($3,000 or so) and what something with a passable Armstrong signature added would be worth ($10,000-$20,000). A passable Armstrong forgery added to something signed by 11 of the 12 would transform a $3,000 item into a $10,000+ bonanza. A smart & wise collector or investor would require iron clad provenance of all 12 moonwalker autographs on any one piece, certainly the Armstrong, before buying one.

Bob McLeod

posted 05-24-2005 05:23 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Michael:
I dont understand what you mean by the "print is unimaginative". I like this print better than some of Alan Beans Prints.

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posted 05-24-2005 07:12 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Michael:

Since the John Young Signing, does anybody have an item signed by all 12 Moonwalkers????? If so, can you show it to all of us???? Just Asking
Mike

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There's a story that's been circulating for years about the collector who approached John Young years ago with a photo signed by 11 of the 12 moonwalkers and he politely asked Young to sign and complete it. Young bluntly refused with the comment: "Do you know how much that would be worth if I signed it?"

Hopefully, after all these years and that disappointment, that collector was one who sent his 11/12 moonwalker signed photo to Novaspace for Young to finally sign and complete. It was a long time to wait but hopefully that collector's story now has a happy ending.

Bob Mc.

posted 05-24-2005 07:27 PM               

If Armstrong did relent and sign these prints how much would they be worth?

The introduction of one thousand complete Moonwalker signed pieces into the market would have to spell the end of the $10,000 to $20,000 prices Bob mentions above.

I'm guessing that we'd be looking somewhere between $4,000 at least (cost of print plus $1K Armstrong signing) and maybe $8,000 at most?

Cheers,
Matt

posted 05-25-2005 03:49 AM               

Anyone know how many signed Moonwalker prints were produced? I can't imagine it was 1,000.

posted 05-25-2005 09:37 AM               

I know all 1000 prints were originally in the possession of Bill Hongash of Capital Cards Brooklyn, NY. Jim Irwin was the first to sign and i think he signed between 500 & 600. His idea was to get all the moonwalkers to sign. Bill had some financial difficulties and eventually relinquished his interest. Not certain about what happened between Bill and the prints making their way to Novaspace - just a bunch of rumors and stories mostly. The artist, Ron Lewis, may have signed/numbered all the prints. In addition to the 11 signature version (I'm anxiously awaiting back from the Young signing), I have an un-numbered one w/o any signatures. It's not uncommon to run extra copies in case prints in the edition are damaged. Best wishes,

posted 05-25-2005 04:08 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by zee_aladdin:
http://www.collectspace.com/review/all-moonwalkers.jpg

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Hi,
What's the relevance of this item?

posted 05-25-2005 08:32 PM            

I believe Zee was responding to this post a few up from here.

Very nice Zee.

quote:

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Originally posted by Michael:
Since the John Young Signing, does anybody have an item signed by all 12 Moonwalkers????? If so, can you show it to all of us???? Just Asking
Mike

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posted 05-25-2005 10:02 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Danno:
Scott,
I believe Zee was responding to this post a few up from here.
Very nice Zee.

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posted 05-25-2005 10:59 PM               

I too would love to know how the Armstrong was added!!

posted 05-26-2005 07:01 PM               

A long time ago, Neil used to sign all the time, and many of these Multi-signed pictures where available to the serious collector.

posted 05-27-2005 10:48 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by zee_aladdin:
A long time ago, Neil used to sign all the time, and many of these Multi-signed pictures where available to the serious collector.

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posted 05-27-2005 11:50 AM               

What problems do you have with the Armstrong Signature. Please Elaborate.

posted 05-27-2005 01:06 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Scott:

Again, I am curious as to the provenance of this item.

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Provenance (Chain of ownership) is so important with valuable autographed items such as this. At this time this is a "stand alone" item with nothing backing it up or supporting its authenticity. Perhaps its complete history is known. If so, then tracing it back to its origin would speak volumes about its authenticity. If it has solid and credible provenance, then its value and resale value would be greatly increased.

posted 05-27-2005 01:06 PM               

I guess my point is that there are so many questions about Armstrong signatures that, unless it's on a commissioned piece, or a piece you received directly from him, IMO 99% of the cases it's not worth the effort...those "other" Armstrong signatures will most likely always be questioned.

posted 05-27-2005 02:33 PM            

I'm certainly not an expert on Armstrong's autograph, but there are certain
things you mention that I think
deserve to be analyzed a bit further. Again, I want to be clear....I'm not
attacking your motives at all, as I
think they're genuinely meant to be helpful to the hobby. What concerns me
most, if I hadn't already made it
clear by my previous post, is the tarnishing of items where that tarnish may not
be justified. (I'm sure you'd agree
that even though you've used the word "suspect", instead of, perhaps,bogus, in
describing this Armstrong style signature,
the word "suspect" DOES still have a tarnishing effect, and therefore should
never be used lightly).

I recall not very long ago there was a bit of a tempest about a certain Michael
Collins signature style, supposedly
one particular style that was in many or most instances seen with the added
inscription "Apollo XI". There
was much talk, by many collectors, that this was a very suspect signature style,
and which, interestingly, was
also thought to mostly emanate from Germany. It seemed that anytime a Collins
signature with the "Apollo XI"
surfaced, it was immediately suspect almost solely because of the added
inscription. (I acknowledge there may have
been certain flourishes to the Collins signature on its own that gave pause to
those calling the autographs suspect).
There was a cloud left hanging over these Collins signatures, that is until
Collins did a signing with
Novaspace, and signed many items with the added "Apollo XI". Lo and behold,
these unquestionably authentic
Novaspace Collins inscriptions were nearly identical to the ones that were so
often before called suspect.

What I have found disturbing is that there was never a concerted follow-up
regarding the matter; I don't recall ever
seeing any type of re-ignited debate as to whether all those suspect Collins
signatures "from Germany" may have, in fact,
not really been so suspect after all. I'm not saying that now they're all
unquestionably authentic, or that such a follow-up debate
never took place......just that I didn't see the follow-up debate anywhere, or
any mention that perhaps many authentic Collins
signatures were perhaps unfairly branded as "suspect" (or worse).

I'm not defending Zee's piece here, per se, and I'm not saying, Scott, that you
or others have been attacking it.
I'd just like to see VERY great care in calling certain items into question,
especially since there seems to be a tendency
(part of human nature, I suppose) to almost never "exonerate" something with the
same doggedness
with which it may have been diminished.

posted 05-27-2005 02:53 PM            

Both were NASA 8x10 lithos of the moon. Both were signed by all 12 through the mail at a time when it was still not terribly difficult to obtain them all (ie: early to mid 1980s). I would leave the more difficult signers to last (ie: Scott and Young) in the hope that they would appreciate my initiative and work, send it by registered mail and keep my fingers crossed. Fortunately, all obliged - although I am sure everyone can imagine just how hard it was to mail it back out again and again as I got closer and closer to completion!

I am 100% confident that all were completely genuine - certainly there were no autopens or Shepard secretarials.

I haven't seen either of them re-surface since.

What would I give to have one of them back now? Well, that's the $20,000 question, isn't it? Still, I was happy with the trade at the time...and although sad, was happy with the price I got for the second one, so I can't complain. However, selling the second one wasn't a free choice so it still gnaws at me and always will do - especially as short of a lottery win, I will never get either of them back. I hope the current owners are getting as much enjoyment from them as I got.

posted 05-27-2005 03:08 PM               

Thank You everyone for the Great discussion.

posted 05-27-2005 03:17 PM               

Things must be slow in the jury that images now have to be taken without permission from owner's websites for ritual castigation.

posted 05-27-2005 03:31 PM               

I have an item that is signed by 12 astronauts, of which are 5 moonwalkers.

I know all of them are genuine because I WAS THERE when they all singed it.

posted 05-27-2005 03:44 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by earlyduke:
Lo and behold,
these unquestionably authentic
Novaspace Collins inscriptions were nearly identical to the ones that were so
often before called suspect.

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My analysis of those was never based on the way the "Apollo XI" looked, but rather other traits and the fact that unique styles always appeared together and with a certain provenance. I take your point well, but I do not agree that the "Mike Collins" part of those questioned signatures matches the "Mike Collins" signatures from the signing.

posted 05-27-2005 03:50 PM               

The way in which the question arose may have been unorthodox and indirect, but IMHO the provenance issue IS important in a case where the autograph does not easily fit with a representative selection of examples.

I'm sure no-one meant to cast a shadow over MW's otherwise outstanding collection and to the extent that HE is convinced that it is genuine THAT is all that matters. It would still be nice to know for the record where he sourced this item so that the record can be set straight. Or maybe you can provide similar examples for the record, Joe?

Paul Bramley