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Author
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Topic: Neil Armstrong's moon-worn Apollo 11 patch
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LM-12
Member Posts: 4198
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 09-18-2025 11:42 PM
  
If the mission patch on Neil Armstrong's flown A7L-056 suit is the flown patch, why does the border area (stitching?) around the Apollo 11 patch look different in these pre-flight and post-flight photos?Pre-flight:  Post-flight:  |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 55252
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-19-2025 07:49 AM
If it is not just a difference in lighting and proximity when photographed, then one possibility might trace back to post-flight servicing.NASA had a practice of removing the patches from the suits to present to the astronauts after their mission. The Apollo 11 crew is known to have refused this gift, recognizing the historic nature of their suits. It is possible the patches had been removed before the crew's direction to keep them with their suits, and so had to be resewn on. (But that is conjecture on my part.) |
LM-12
Member Posts: 4198
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 09-19-2025 08:17 AM
For comparison, this photo shows the border area around his flown NASA meatball patch. To me, the border area of the mission patch in the pre-flight photo looks more like this, rather than the post-flight photo. |
randyc
Member Posts: 961
From: Highlands Ranch, CO USA
Registered: May 2003
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posted 09-19-2025 12:25 PM
The pre-flight and post-flight photos of the stitching of the mission emblem patch looks the same. The best area to compare is the left side of the patch. Both the pre-flight and post-flight photos of the mission emblem patch show a diagonal stitching pattern which is different from the stitching pattern of the NASA patch. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 4198
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 09-19-2025 03:16 PM
I have heard that the Apollo 11 mission patch was added to the suits very late pre-flight, so that might explain why the two post-flight borders look so different.Perhaps for the other missions, the NASA meatball patches were sewn on at ILC, and the mission patches were only added after the flight crews were announced. |
DG27
Member Posts: 286
From: USA
Registered: Nov 2010
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posted 09-19-2025 05:46 PM
The NASA vector patches were sewn to the outer layer of beta cloth using a sewing machine during suit manufacture, before the multiple TMG layers were put together. That is why the vector patches have a single straight stitch around the edge. All mission patches are hand sewn to the suit after the suits are completed and suits are successfully prepped for flight. Since the TMG is already together and they don't want to stitch thru the multiple TMG layers (as stitching the multiple TMG layers together reduces the thermal insulation capability), the mission patches are hand loop-stitched to just the outer layer of beta cloth. Not an easy task. That is why the mission patches have the diagonal stitching around the edge. The mission patches also have straight stitching along the edge to hem it before it is attached to the suit. I believe the pre-flight and post flight border stitching is the same, the preflight picture is slightly blurry and more difficult see the stitching details. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 4198
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 09-19-2025 07:57 PM
The Apollo astronauts had code names at ILC, so when would the name tags have been sewn on? |
DG27
Member Posts: 286
From: USA
Registered: Nov 2010
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posted 09-20-2025 05:05 AM
In looking at both Armstrong's and Aldrin's flown suits the name tags were sewn on during manufacturer of the TMG like the NASA vector patch. The TMG, the PGA, and the suit liner also had suit labels with the astronauts name, suit serial number, date, etc that were installed during fabrication and stitching of the individual components. I am not sure how far along the code names were carried but at some point the suits all had to have the correct identity (suit labels and name tags) while they were being made. During the suit fabrication and assembly the suit could be tracked by its serial number. But at some point the suit labels and name tags have to be added. I think the suit liner and the PGA labels could be added as the last manufacturing step due to how they were attached, but the TMG fabrication required the suit label and name tag be stitched to the respective inner and outer layers of the TMG before the TMG was completed. Bill Ayrey's excellent book "Lunar Outfiters" may provide some clarification. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 4198
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 09-20-2025 09:13 AM
Just guessing here, but maybe when the name tags were sewn on, they were covered with a temporary tag or cloth with the code name.Something like how a temporary cloth was sewn over the "8 Days or Bust" slogan on the covered wagon in the Gemini 5 mission patch. The book you mention has a list of the code names on page 367. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 4198
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 09-22-2025 12:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
NASA had a practice of removing the patches from the suits to present to the astronauts after their mission.
This is a post-flight photo of the mission patch on Ed Mitchell's lunar suit. It shows the same type of diagonal stitching, but it probably isn't the flown patch. |
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