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Author
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Topic: Apollo 12: On the Ocean of Storms (D. Harland)
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hermit
Member Posts: 186
From: Scotland
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted 04-14-2011 11:41 AM
   
Another box of books arrived, with ten more copies. They all have the banding. Worse, of the twelve that I have now inspected, I found ten to have some images (different from book to book) marred by thin white horizontal lines spaced a few millimetres apart. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3118
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 04-15-2011 01:30 PM
I have received my copy, in perfect condition, and with absolutely no problems with the photographs. Although I have seen all but one or two of the photographs in the book elsewhere, I am now seeing many of them in colour for the first time. This looks like a very welcome addition to my bookshelves, and I'm looking forward to a good read. |
hermit
Member Posts: 186
From: Scotland
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted 04-16-2011 12:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Blackarrow:
I have received my copy, in perfect condition, and with absolutely no problems with the photographs.
Before I devote further effort to trying to discover whether the 'lunar sky banding' is my fault or a printing problem, I have placed two annotated scans from the book in the directory here.If anyone has a copy of the book that does NOT show such banding, could they please let me know. |
Lasv3
Member Posts: 410
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted 04-16-2011 11:57 AM
I am through the first four hundred pages now and it's great and enjoyable reading!However, I have a question re. the frontpage photo. It's in colour. How's that when according to the book all Surveyor pictures were in black-and-white only (page 400)? This is supported by the text on page 369 saying Bean forgot to replace the bw magazine by the colour one which was left in the saddlebag.
Or maybe I missed or misinterpreted something? |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3118
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 04-16-2011 01:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hermit:
If anyone has a copy of the book that does NOT show such banding, could they please let me know.
Having checked very carefully, I have found these very slight blemishes. On first looking through the photographs I probably thought the banding in the black sky areas was light reflection off the semi-glossy surface. This really doesn't impair my enjoyment of the book one little bit, but I can understand that an author would want everything to be perfect. It's like a parent worrying about a freckle on his child's face. Everyone else says: "What a beautiful child." The parent thinks: "My poor kid! That freckle!" I would have been annoyed if any of the pictures had been smeared, as has apparently happened in some copies. The slight banding isn't a problem for me. It's a beautiful book, a great addition to my Apollo book collection. |
hermit
Member Posts: 186
From: Scotland
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted 04-16-2011 03:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Lasv3:
I have a question re. the frontpage photo. It's in colour.
It is a case of the art guy at Praxis who makes up the covers demonstrating his skill at colorising a black and white image! |
hermit
Member Posts: 186
From: Scotland
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted 04-16-2011 03:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Blackarrow:
Having checked very carefully, I have found these very slight blemishes.
A possible explanation for the banding is being investigated. This is the first book of mine to have 'colour throughout'. Previously, my books were black-and-white with, in some cases, a colour insert section. A smart printing system can handle both, switching its mode as appropriate. The hypothesis is that it starts printing my jet black lunar sky in B+W mode and then finds a patch of colour that flips the process into colour mode, in which the black is different. So it would run in B+W until meeting the top of a LM, a flag pole, a PLSS antenna, then flip into colour mode. If this is the reason for the banding, then all it needs is to see a speckle of colour throughout the sky (not visible to the eye) which will force it to print the black sky 'in colour'. If the images had been printed up separately for a colour insert, the problem wouldn't have occurred - as indeed it didn't previously. But as yet this is only a hypothesis. |
Lasv3
Member Posts: 410
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted 04-17-2011 04:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by hermit:
It is a case of the art guy at Praxis who makes up the covers demonstrating his skill at colorising a black and white image!
He's really good, job well done!  |
PeterO
Member Posts: 399
From: North Carolina
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 04-17-2011 05:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by hermit:
A smart printing system can handle both, switching its mode as appropriate. The hypothesis is that it starts printing my jet black lunar sky in B+W mode and then finds a patch of colour that flips the process into colour mode, in which the black is different.
That sounds plausible, but the multiple bands would indicate that the process is switching from b/w to color, back to b/w, and then color again. From your description, once the process switches to color, it would not revert to b/w.Incidentally, I looked through a copy at Barnes & Noble last night, and the two photos you referenced above show exactly the same banding as your examples. It looks like an excellent read, but unfortunately I'm not in a position to buy it right now. I'll have to wait till less-expensive used copies become available  |
AlanLawrie
Member Posts: 95
From: hitchin, herts, UK
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 04-17-2011 06:07 AM
It's not the first time the Apollo 12 Surveyor picture has appeared "in colour". After each Apollo flight the French magazine Paris Match always published a great colour section of mission pictures. The Apollo 12 issue had this picture in colour. It confused me for years afterwards as everyone else printed it in black and white. |
hermit
Member Posts: 186
From: Scotland
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted 04-17-2011 06:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by PeterO:
That sounds plausible, but the multiple bands would indicate that the process is switching from b/w to color, back to b/w, and then color again.
This is indeed the case - a close examination of the files with multiple banding shows that there were small clusters of colour pixels at the transition. By the logic of the theory of what is going on, it switches back to B+W on passing that splotch of colour and again sees only jet black.The basic problem is that I forced the lunar sky to jet black, totally so in the case of those that have only one transition where it meets true colour, and almost so where there is multiple banding and I can, when looking with the colours exaggerated, see a splotch of colour too faint to be seen by eye, but evidently enough to trigger the switch. I'm awaiting feedback from Springer. |
jjknap
Member Posts: 273
From: Bourbonnais, IL USA
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 04-17-2011 12:07 PM
I have the banding as well, but I still think the pictures are beautiful in this book. |
hermit
Member Posts: 186
From: Scotland
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted 04-17-2011 12:28 PM
I reckon that the verdict is the banding is present in all the books, and identically so. Fortunately it is only a dozen illustrations out of hundreds. |
Lasv3
Member Posts: 410
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted 04-17-2011 01:05 PM
Please stop "tormenting" yourself, the book is excellent and the banding issue is a minor one, majority of us surely do not care about it at all |
hermit
Member Posts: 186
From: Scotland
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted 04-17-2011 01:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Lasv3:
Please stop "tormenting" yourself
Like BlackArrow said: Everyone else says: "What a beautiful child." The parent thinks: "My poor kid! That freckle!" |
heng44
Member Posts: 3386
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 04-20-2011 10:11 AM
Received my copy today. This is definitely the ultimate Apollo 12 book. No doubt it is as good as the Apollo 11 volume. Highly recommended! |
MCroft04
Member Posts: 1634
From: Smithfield, Me, USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 04-20-2011 08:15 PM
I'm already well into the book; the amount of detail is amazing. Can't wait to get to the lunar EVA's! Great job David. |
fredtrav
Member Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 04-20-2011 09:46 PM
Great job David. Well worth it even with some banding on a couple of pics. Should be a part of anyone's space library. |
heng44
Member Posts: 3386
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 04-26-2011 10:33 AM
Halfway through the book and I must say it is excellent. I wish I had a book like this for every manned mission. |
hermit
Member Posts: 186
From: Scotland
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted 04-26-2011 10:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by heng44:
I wish I had a book like this for every manned mission.
Be patient! |
cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 04-26-2011 02:08 PM
Ed: you meant Apollo missions, right?  |
MCroft04
Member Posts: 1634
From: Smithfield, Me, USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 04-26-2011 09:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hermit:
Be patient!
I'm 1/3 through the book and am enjoying the excellent read. And then there is Apollo 14, Apollo 15, Apollo 16, and my favorite Apollo 17. How long do I have to wait?
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heng44
Member Posts: 3386
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 04-26-2011 11:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cspg:
Ed: you meant Apollo missions, right?
Not necessarily... Although DMH already wrote a good book about the Gemini missions. |
hermit
Member Posts: 186
From: Scotland
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted 04-27-2011 01:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by MCroft04:
...and my favorite Apollo 17. How long do I have to wait?
I aim to write one per year, so the Apollo 14 book will be written this year and come out next year, and so on... |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3118
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 04-27-2011 06:10 PM
Are you (clears throat and coughs nervously) in good health? |
Lasv3
Member Posts: 410
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted 04-27-2011 11:24 PM
And what about us?  |
hermit
Member Posts: 186
From: Scotland
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted 05-02-2011 12:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Blackarrow:
Are you (clears throat and coughs nervously) in good health?
I'll do my best! |
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