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  Retro Space Images vs. image services (Was: Wall Street Journal: Apollo 11 photo blog)

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Author Topic:   Retro Space Images vs. image services (Was: Wall Street Journal: Apollo 11 photo blog)
hlbjr
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Posts: 321
From: Delray Beach Florida USA
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 08-21-2009 07:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hlbjr   Click Here to Email hlbjr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is a surprisingly well done photo blog of the Apollo 11 mission. A couple of photos I've not seen before and nice large images.

space1
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Posts: 506
From: Danville, Ohio, USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 08-21-2009 07:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for space1   Click Here to Email space1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A nice tribute. But a few of the images appear to be altered. Specifically the one with the CSM over the moon combines two separate images (isn't the moon image from Apollo 8?), and the TV screen image with Aldrin has to be an artistically altered version of his iconic image. Still it tells the story reasonably well.

KSCartist
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From: Titusville, FL USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 08-21-2009 09:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCartist   Click Here to Email KSCartist     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice shot of Speaker Rayburn blowing his nose or trying to pop his ears.

Great shots but I agree with John - the captions need to be corrected. Like the shot of the crew next to the CM. Wasn't that taken in the Gulf during water egress training?

They really need to run these past cS before they are published.

heng44
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From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 08-21-2009 11:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for heng44   Click Here to Email heng44     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It never ceases to amaze me how magazines and newspapers continue to pay no doubt huge amounts of money to picture libraries such as Getty Images for bad copies of NASA photos that are freely available on the internet...

Also, for the price of one Getty file photo they could have a RetroSpaceImages DVD containing 1500 photos in better quality!

StarDome
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From: Cambridge UK
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 08-21-2009 11:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarDome   Click Here to Email StarDome     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here Here Ed, and the Retro Space Images CDs have far better quality images on them as you say, as well as the standard issue there are a lot more unusual pics that we rarely see which are truly superb! Those discs are just incredible.

I am so pleased I have all of the Apollo and shuttle ones. Well worth every dollar.

Robert Pearlman
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Posts: 27327
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-21-2009 11:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by heng44:
It never ceases to amaze me how magazines and newspapers continue to pay no doubt huge amounts of money to picture libraries such as Getty Images for bad copies of NASA photos that are freely available on the internet...
The fees paid are not just for the images, but for the services offered including assured rights management and complete indexing. I agree that the discs are great, but for professional media use, they would need at least photographer/copyright owner data for each photo and would need a better means of organization for quick searches.

StarDome
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From: Cambridge UK
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posted 08-21-2009 01:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarDome   Click Here to Email StarDome     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What they ought to do is contact people on cS first! it would save them lots of money!

Jay
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posted 08-21-2009 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay   Click Here to Email Jay     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
The fees paid are not just for the images, but for the services offered including assured rights management and complete indexing. I agree that the discs are great, but for professional media use, they would need at least photographer/copyright owner data for each photo and would need a better means of organization for quick searches.
Regarding the Apollo 11 Retro Space Images disc, I would estimate that 98% of the images are of NASA origin. Thus no copyright issues and no photographer names known. Rule of thumb with the discs... if there is no NASA ID listed, best to inquire with me as to it's availability for commercial use. I might add that CNN had no trouble working with me in putting together a nice slideshow for use on their website during the Apollo 11 anniversary. You might still be able to search CNN.com and find it under "From Doughnuts to Lift-Off".

Regarding disc organization. With the exception of crew emblems and astronaut portraits at the very beginning, the rest of the images are presented in chronological order. Every mission back to Mercury follows the same basic timeline... training, vehicle stacking, more training, rollout, countdown test, launch day, etc. It is not difficult at all to locate an image on the disc as long as you have a feel for the sequence of events, and especially if you know a date. The images are presented so that the viewer can enjoy a start to finish re-cap of the flight.

Thanks for all of the kind words regarding the image discs. I can honestly say that I have yet to hear a negative review on any of the mission discs. I hope to have the MR-4 disc ready to ship in a week. The Apollo 9 disc is about three weeks away. I will also have a free "sample disc" available soon for the asking... via the Retrospaceimages.com website, or direct e-mail to me.

StarDome
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From: Cambridge UK
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posted 08-21-2009 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarDome   Click Here to Email StarDome     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's what I thought too regarding NASA copyright, and seeing as most media seem to use NASA images. As you all will know NASA's site states:
NASA still images; audio files; video; and computer files used in the rendition of 3-dimensional models, such as texture maps and polygon data in any format, generally are not copyrighted. You may use NASA imagery, video, audio, and data files used for the rendition of 3-dimensional models for educational or informational purposes, including photo collections, textbooks, public exhibits, computer graphical simulations and Internet Web pages. This general permission extends to personal Web pages.

If a recognizable person, or talent (e.g., an astronaut or a noted personality engaged to narrate a film) appears in NASA material, use for commercial purposes may infringe a right of privacy or publicity.

Also regarding the above the site also states that:
However, if the intended use of NASA material is primarily for communicative purposes, i.e., books, newspapers, and magazines reporting facts of historical significance (constitutionally protected media uses), then such uses will generally be considered not to infringe such personal rights.
So for what the Wall Street Journal did or as Jay did with CNN I cant see why they would need indexing or assured rights management in this case unless the images are not from NASA.

Robert Pearlman
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Posts: 27327
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-21-2009 02:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My comments about the discs were limited to competing with a service like Getty. In that regard, each image would need to be individually "packaged" in some way to clearly identify that it was a NASA image and that it was public domain.

So to be clear, I am not saying that the discs are not usable by the media, they clearly are, but if you want to compare them to services such as Getty, then they need to be (at least) on par with the features they offer.

StarDome
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From: Cambridge UK
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posted 08-21-2009 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarDome   Click Here to Email StarDome     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As a tool for professionals the discs are second to none, and if Jay put a caveat on each disc that stated if the user is not entirely sure of the copyright/issue/photographer then they should contact Jay for that info then I am sure "Professional" users would do that.

I have showed these discs to a couple of the people I know at the BBC and they are astounded at the quality and scope they offer.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 27327
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-21-2009 02:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No argument with anything you just wrote Andy, but the question was asked by Ed as to why services like Getty are used.

For long lead projects, I am sure editors would be happy to contact Jay, identify the usage rights and take the time to browse through the files. But for news stories, when reporters are working on deadline (especially for print and TV, but the web as well), the convenience and speed offered by the AP, Getty and others becomes paramount.

StarDome
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From: Cambridge UK
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posted 08-21-2009 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarDome   Click Here to Email StarDome     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's ok, no problem Robert.

I hear what you are saying, and maybe in fields other than space I would agree with you, but I have yet to see anywhere on any site where the space images used as purchased from third parties can beat them or are any where near as good on the whole.

Each to their own, I am sure what ever happens the "professional" media will use who they are used to dealing with that's par the course.

Not everyone is aware of the other resources that are on offer.

I have come across that a lot in the past in the work I do, where people just believe that there is "one" source of material and when it is pointed out that there are other places it can be quite a revelation."

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 27327
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-21-2009 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by StarDome:
Not everyone is aware of the other resources that are on offer.
That's very true too, and I've done my fair share like you singing the praises of Retro Space Images CDs to my fellow colleagues in the media. I've also tried to include images from JL's discs on collectSPACE (with linked credit to his website) as a subtle means of demonstrating the usefulness of the discs.

StarDome
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Posts: 0
From: Cambridge UK
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 08-21-2009 08:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarDome   Click Here to Email StarDome     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great stuff Robert, we're all singing off the same hymn sheet then.

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