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  [Lunar Legacies] Space memorabilia (March 2018) (Page 2)

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Author Topic:   [Lunar Legacies] Space memorabilia (March 2018)
garyd2831
Member

Posts: 640
From: Syracuse, New York, USA
Registered: Oct 2009

posted 03-23-2018 10:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for garyd2831   Click Here to Email garyd2831     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tnperri:
I was assured that the person consigning these items had NASA approval.
It's actually pretty easy for someone to sell something like these bulk packages of patches and pins. In a nutshell someone who has access to them, and/or one who would produce the to be gifted presentations didn't either produce as many as required or these are actually "unaccounted" for leftovers.

Seeing how there is no National Stock Number (NSN) attached to them, the claim as being flown is in the eye of the bidder/owner. While they are probably flown via US taxpayer dollars, and would require some formal proof of transfer of ownership, its no different than if I was to go to my Squadron Commander and asked them for a flight suit patch. They are paid for by tax dollars and easily given away. Just my two cents on how this may have been the situation for this auction lot.

Chuckster01
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Posts: 873
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014

posted 03-24-2018 05:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chuckster01   Click Here to Email Chuckster01     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have no idea why anyone would take Lunar Legacies' word that these are okay to sell without any written release from NASA or a letter of provenance from the consignor. There are items that should be cleared with NASA before being sold and I feel this lot is one of them.

I would also like to know if lot 649 was sold and shipped to the buyer or if Lunar Legacies had let them know it was a copy and the patch was not flown?

garyd2831
Member

Posts: 640
From: Syracuse, New York, USA
Registered: Oct 2009

posted 03-24-2018 07:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for garyd2831   Click Here to Email garyd2831     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Again these are patches and pins that are vacuumed sealed, something anyone could do. I doubt anyone at NASA would even know they are missing from whatever office they originated. Fault on the part of NASA (again I don't know all the ins and outs to flown items on the shuttle), but some associated serial number should have been printed/stamped to at least the outside portion of the vacuumed sealed bag. The serial number would be manifested in regards to the contents being carried on board the shuttle. Now had that been the standard process for NASA on such said items, yes a chain or custody and some form of government release/final disposition would need to be provided.

I just see them as a bunch of patches/pins in vacuumed sealed bags. Other than the handwritten note, what proof is there to say they were actually flown?

One more point, because there is no NSN, there is no accountability and these would not be consider Property Book items.

tnperri
Member

Posts: 452
From: Malvern, Ohio
Registered: Jun 2011

posted 03-24-2018 07:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tnperri   Click Here to Email tnperri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Out of curiosity, would it be possible that the three individual packages were place into a larger bag (earmarked for Goddard) and this would have had the NSN?

Robert Pearlman
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Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-24-2018 08:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To my knowledge, the contents of the Official Flight Kit were not assigned NASA property IDs (or NSNs or anything similar). At most, they were labeled with a number corresponding to their item number on the OFK manifest to help with distribution post-flight.

That may be because a good part of the OFK contents did not belong to NASA. Many, if not most of the individual items were provided to the crew by organizations or institutions and were returned to such after the mission.

But NASA did pack large quantities of its own patches, flags and other mementos in the OFK for distribution to employees and VIPs. There may have been no way to track these items as with other NASA property.

Here are examples of packed mementos from a special extension to the OFK on STS-132:

garyd2831
Member

Posts: 640
From: Syracuse, New York, USA
Registered: Oct 2009

posted 03-24-2018 09:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for garyd2831   Click Here to Email garyd2831     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert's photos proves the point I made. Remove those items from the storage containers and provenance is lost. No serial number, no actual way to track its flown status.

This is a similar discussion I had with a fellow cS member's who father worked at NASA and had some tags stating "flown" status in a box with items related to that flight. The problem is, these tags weren't attached to anything, so to guess or assume that the items in the box were flown is anyone's guess. While there is a strong chance that some of these items as I described were flown, there is no way to determine which was and wasn't.

Adding to the topic, this same person had access to these items and kept a number of them. He did so in the same manner as these sealed packaged patches/pins. Not as a criminal act, but because they become an unaccountable item that ends up in someones lower desk drawer. This happens all the time. As for proof they are flown, again in the eyes of the owner.


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