Author
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Topic: [RegencySuperior] Space Auction (May 2016)
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Penney Kols Member Posts: 38 From: saint louis mo usa Registered: Sep 2008
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posted 02-26-2016 07:03 PM
For those of you unaware, Richard Stonely, an international space autograph collector from Houston, Texas passed away recently. Seen here on collectSPACE, Richard frequently offered his opinion on message boards, and uploaded personal snap shots of astronauts and cosmonauts — many of whom befriended him. Like him or not, there was one thing that most agreed upon, Richard had a fabulous collection of space autographs and other memorabilia. RegencySuperior has been selected to auction the massive collection of Richard Stonely’s space autographs and memorabilia. The sale of his material will be offered in their upcoming May and October 2016 auctions, with the balance of this huge consignment to be featured in 2017 and possibly beyond. In 2000, Richard stated here on collectSPACE, "...I have been collecting space for 40 years, and have over 60,000 signed items in my collection, with probably 80% [obtained] in person... My expertise in signatures is second to none and as far as authenticity, anyone wanting to visit me in Houston is welcome to go to my warehouse and see my collection!" RegencySuperior was closing out their May 2016 auction when news of Stonely's untimely death was learned. There are nearly 200 space and early aviation autograph pieces that will go up on the auction block in May.One of the highlights include a 1960s Mercury 7 signed color photo (approx 11"x14") depicting the Mercury 7 group in flight gear standing in front of a U.S. Air Force jet bearing bold signatures of Scott Carpenter, Gordon Cooper, John Glenn, Gus Grissom, Wally Schirra, Alan Shepard and Deke Slayton all placed above their image. Another piece is a 1970s Apollo astronauts signed 16"x20" color photo on thick glossy paper that depicts Earth as seen from the moon bearing bold signatures of 16 astronauts including Jack Schmitt, Alan Shepard, Charles Conrad, Dave Scott, Gene Cernan, Michael Collins, Buzz Aldrin, Neil Armstrong, Edgar Mitchell, Alan Bean, Al Worden, Charlie Duke, John Young, Frank Borman, Walt Cunningham and Richard Gordon. List includes complete crew of both Apollo 11 and Apollo 12 and 11 moonwalkers. Note that several of these signatures are personally inscribed to Richard by astronauts. RegencySuperior's May 2016 auction will go online for viewing and bidding starting mid-April. Free color catalogs are available by calling toll-free 1-800-782-0066. For specific questions regarding this space auction, please contact Alan Lipkin. Good luck with your bidding! |
Tallpaul Member Posts: 153 From: Rocky Point, NY, USA Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 02-26-2016 07:06 PM
So sad to read about Richard's passing. He was always fun to deal with. Condolences to his family. |
milkit1 Member Posts: 271 From: Springfield Illinois USA Registered: Sep 2015
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posted 02-26-2016 08:58 PM
Sorry to hear about this. I had been corresponding with Richard up til the first week of January. I bought his SpaceShots collection off him in December and we talked on the phone several times. He mentioned some of his problems but I did not realize how serious it really was. |
NAAmodel#240 Member Posts: 312 From: Boston, Mass. Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 04-13-2016 05:21 PM
Does anyone have an opinion concerning the Kittinger cover (item #2)? If flown did it remain with the balloon or would the aeronaut have carried it when he jumped? |
rgarner Member Posts: 1193 From: Shepperton, United Kingdom Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 04-14-2016 04:23 AM
Indeed, it is always sad to hear of the passing of a collector. Sadly, I never met him personally, but this year at Spacefest I do hope to meet as many cS members as I can. And given that my first name is Richard, I would love to see the Earthrise photo on my wall. |
Jared_5714 Member Posts: 10 From: St. Louis, MO, United States Registered: Nov 2013
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posted 04-14-2016 09:56 AM
RegencySuperior's May 2016 auction is now online for viewing and bidding and will also be posted on Invaluable.com beginning Monday, April 18 ('live' internet bidding available on both sites). For a free color catalog, call toll-free 1-800-782-0066 or email. For specific questions regarding this space auction, please contact Alan Lipkin or Ben Fine. Good luck with your bidding! |
Steve Zarelli Member Posts: 731 From: Upstate New York, USA Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-14-2016 12:51 PM
As a general guideline, I don't offer unsolicited options on auctions. However, I have some concern in this case and thought it appropriate to share with the community.As many know, Richard Stonely was an avid in-person collector who amassed a high volume of authentic material. That said, he also purchased and traded items from the secondary market. There are items from his collection that he certainly did not obtain in-person. While the vast majority of the items in his collection are fine, my concern is that some collectors may mistakenly assume everything from his collection was obtained in-person by Richard and is undoubtedly genuine. While most of the items I browsed appear authentic in my opinion, there are some items that are questionable. I communicated with Richard a handful of times over the years, and it was clear that he cared about authenticity and would never want his name attached to an item that was questionable. It's possible he knew some of these items were secretarial or questionable but never got around to labeling them as such or disposing of them. - 44 - Grissom cover - Suspect
- 69 - White - Known forgery style
- 71 - Gemini IV - Known forgery style
- 74 - White - Suspect
- 100 - Collins - Known forgery style
- 116 - Chaffee cover – Suspect
- 128 - Apollo 8 - Known forgery style
- 147 - Apollo 10 - Suspect
- 148 - Apollo 10 - Known forgery style
- 149 - Apollo 10 - Suspect (Not Stonely)
- 150 - Apollo 10 - Suspect
- 153 - Apollo 11 secretarial signatures
- 199 - Apollo 14 - Known forgery style
- 201 - Shepard secretarial signature
- 202 - Apollo 14 presentation - all three signatures highly unusual. Secretary signed?
The following lots are NOT from the Stonely collection: - Lots 388-392 Five Gagarin lots. All are the same mass produced and documented forgery style from a known Russian forger.
Please note that I did not go through each and every lot.Of course this represents my opinion and I encourage anyone to seek the opinion of other experienced collectors and/or dealers if there is any question about an item. No one is perfect and even the most reputable dealers make mistakes. This is not intended to bash Regency and do not believe they would knowingly offer a suspect item. |
Bob M Member Posts: 1746 From: Atlanta-area, GA USA Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 04-14-2016 01:39 PM
I agree with Steve's list of suspect/bad material and it's expected that there will be further suspect lots as the auction is examined closer. But the overwhelming amount of material and lots are authentic and as represented and bidders will be able to bid confidently, if questioned lots are removed. Richard acquired his autograph material from many different sources other than in-person, and made some mistakes as we all do. |
Starfighter1 Member Posts: 95 From: Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 04-14-2016 03:00 PM
Thank you Steve and Bob for your continued valuable input. |
Penney Kols Member Posts: 38 From: saint louis mo usa Registered: Sep 2008
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posted 04-14-2016 05:29 PM
Thank you everyone for your comments. We will review these items noted above more closely. Our senior expert on space memorabilia has just left on a cruise, and will re-examine more closely upon his return. As we noted above, Stonely's passing coincided with the closing of our May sale, and his heirs were anxious to begin offering his collection. As you all know, Stonely had a great reputation in collecting Space memorabilia, and was bound to make an occasional misstep. We formed a working relationship with Richard over the years, and are proud to be selected to represent him and his material solely. |
Tallpaul Member Posts: 153 From: Rocky Point, NY, USA Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 04-14-2016 06:33 PM
Lot 391 looks exactly like the cover I returned in 2012 for a refund because it was deemed by three experts to be a forgery. Kind of sad to see it resurface. |
mjanovec Member Posts: 3811 From: Midwest, USA Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 04-14-2016 09:49 PM
Reviewing the lots that Steve mentioned, I concur that these are all suspect signatures. Some very recognizable German-sourced forgeries are among these examples. Unfortunately, these forgery styles stung many collectors and Stonely was apparently not immune. I think we'll be seeing these forgeries appear in the marketplace at regular intervals, as people try to liquidate their collections (or they try to liquidate the collections of loved ones that has passed on). |
albatron Member Posts: 2732 From: Stuart, Florida Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 04-16-2016 10:31 AM
quote: Originally posted by NAAmodel#240: If flown did it remain with the balloon or would the aeronaut have carried it when he jumped?
I don't see anything indicating it's flown, however, I just emailed him to ask. |
yeknom-ecaps Member Posts: 660 From: Northville MI USA Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 04-24-2016 10:12 PM
Al - any word from Joe on the cover? |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 05-06-2016 01:04 PM
collectSPACE 'Huge hunk' of NASA's fallen Skylab space station lands at auctionA massive chunk of the United States' first space station is about to land at auction. Billed as the "largest existing piece of Skylab wreckage in private hands," Regency-Superior Auctioneers of St. Louis is offering the 300-pound (136-kilogram) artifact as part of its online space memorabilia sale scheduled for May 12. The semi-circular relic has a minimum bid of $30,000 and is estimated to be worth between $45,000 and $55,000 — shipping from Utah not included. |
Indy500 Member Posts: 24 From: Indianapolis, IN, USA Registered: Jun 2015
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posted 05-12-2016 12:33 AM
I'm looking to bid on lot 203 (1971 Apollo 14 Crew Signed Matte With Photo). Does that look legit? Thanks! |
Steve Zarelli Member Posts: 731 From: Upstate New York, USA Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 05-12-2016 04:24 PM
quote: Originally posted by Indy500: I'm looking to bid on lot 203 (1971 Apollo 14 Crew Signed Matte With Photo). Does that look legit? Thanks!
In my opinion, lot 203 is authentic.So, it appears none of the questioned lots were pulled? If I am reading this correctly, this Apollo 11 presentation with obvious secretarial signatures sold for $2,700? Is that with or without buyer's premium? (Lot 153) |
Tallpaul Member Posts: 153 From: Rocky Point, NY, USA Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 05-12-2016 05:09 PM
I noticed that a number of the suspect lots sold for not inconsiderable sums. They did pull lot 391, the forged Gargarin Tereshkova cover but only after I showed them the Letter of Review that got me a refund back in 2012 for the same cover. |
milkit1 Member Posts: 271 From: Springfield Illinois USA Registered: Sep 2015
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posted 05-12-2016 05:45 PM
I was fortunate enough to win this lot. Photocopy of humorous image of four astronauts bearing bold signatures of two astronauts depicted, Moonwalkers Neil Armstrong & Dave Scott. Armstrong adds 'To Jay Hawkins all the best.' No idea what the size of the picture is but I'm hoping it will fit into a display I plan on making. Very happy to get this.
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Indy500 Member Posts: 24 From: Indianapolis, IN, USA Registered: Jun 2015
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posted 05-12-2016 08:38 PM
quote: Originally posted by Steve Zarelli: Is that with or without buyer's premium? (Lot 153)
It says the final bid on lot 153 was $3,240. I think *that* number is without buyer's premium! I'm basing this on the lot I wanted (lot 203) which lists the final bid as $1080 and that *was* the final bid. Unfortunately, I had to stop at $1,000...I also want to take this moment to publicly thank you Steve for looking at lot 203 for me. It's your talent and graciousness that keeps us from wasting our hard earned dollars on fakes. I don't know if it's unusual or not, but there was a *lot* of buying activity from the floor. The floor must of had some rich people because they were winning most of the bids I saw. |
Bob M Member Posts: 1746 From: Atlanta-area, GA USA Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 05-15-2016 12:32 PM
quote: Originally posted by Tallpaul: I noticed that a number of the suspect lots sold for not inconsiderable sums.
I've just been able to briefly check out the final sales in the Regency auction and looks like Regency's "senior expert," after he returned from his cruise, didn't notice anything wrong with the suspect bad lots as listed here and nothing was withdrawn and all sold.Besides the shameful sale of Lot 153 for over $3,000 with Apollo 11 secretarial signatures, Regency's expert also neglected to remove lot 202, the Apollo 14 crew signed litho with obvious fake signatures. Fortunately, the buyer only paid $174 for that and probably thought he got a steal. We failed to list Lot 240 as bad, but no matter, as Regency's expert missed the two autopens (Conrad and Kerwin) on that Skylab 2 cover that sold for $390. Regency-Superior has a long history of failing to remove suspect and autopen signatures from their auctions, and it's likely that at least some of Richard Stonely's suspect material that sold in this auction probably came from prior Regency-Superior auctions. Regency gets 15-20% of each sale from the consignor and 15-20% from the buyer, so it seems that with that hefty profit, they could sacrifice a small amount to pay someone competent and knowledgeable to look over their autograph lots before they go public. |
SpaceAholic Member Posts: 4437 From: Sierra Vista, Arizona Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 05-15-2016 01:46 PM
Even if RegencySuperior disagrees with unfavorable assessments of authenticity by cS members, given it leverages this board to advance commercial interests, only appropriate RS respond in kind to concerns posted here and offer a rational for continuing to lot an item. In my opinion, their failure to do so predisposes one to believe the auction house does not care or is simply willing to sustain hits to its credibility in pursuit of profit. |
Indy500 Member Posts: 24 From: Indianapolis, IN, USA Registered: Jun 2015
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posted 05-15-2016 09:03 PM
Update: I noticed that Regency Superior has changed their web pages so they now say: "Final Bid (Includes Buyers Premium)."So, the final price with buyer's premium on lot 153 was $3,240. |
Penney Kols Member Posts: 38 From: saint louis mo usa Registered: Sep 2008
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posted 05-19-2016 03:46 PM
Thank you for those who participated in our recent auction. It’s been just a week, and we’ve been busy shipping the auction to our successful bidders from the U.S. and around the world. In response to some of the assumptions here – we did in fact, review each item that some of you questioned here on this message board. And, after reviewing, we withdrew three lots prior to the auction: Lots 44, 100 and 147. Our senior lot describers have been working in the space auction industry since Superior’s first auction in the 1990s. And, though their expertise is highly regarded, we do NOT expertise or issue LOAs or COAs of our own material. We believe that it is a conflict of interest, it’s unethical, and we refuse to do it. We do vet the consignments as they come in, and can attest to the numerous fakes and just poor material that we must return to the owner – items the public never sees at auction. With each of our auctions, successful bidders are welcome to place their winning lot on extension for certification with PSA/DNA. We will issue a full refund (including the cost of the cert) if the item receives a negative opinion. And, of course, if you don’t like it, don’t bid on it. We check this message board frequently, but not every day. So, why not pick up the phone or email us directly with your concerns – particularly if there’s a question of authenticity? We truly appreciate it when a person can talk to us directly, and share their knowledge. Or, if you have any questions at all – like does the selling price posted include the buyer’s premium. We are available Monday through Saturday, 9am-5pm (Central Time). Thanks again!
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moonnut Member Posts: 248 From: Andover, MN Registered: Apr 2013
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posted 05-19-2016 06:35 PM
I'm sorry, some credibility has been lost for me. The buyer pays the buyer's premiums... I really don't know why, if it is said that there is no COA and buyer beware. I believe it was "if you don't like it, don't bid on it." Hmmm, not what I would like a reputable auction house to tell its buyers. The ones listed earlier by Steve were certainly suspect. There were other lot numbers too that looked suspect — including a couple Lovell autographs on crew signed covers. You make upwards of 40% off each item (buyer's premium and seller's fee) and it is expected by your buying public that you do your research on the items offered and if it really doesn't look right and poses any question at all, pull it. Lot 153, a good example of a no-brainer pull. How did that Armstrong get by even after a second review? Oh yeah — 40% adds up on that one. And mind you, this is just my opinion. I apologize if I offended. My passion runs high. I love this hobby and grow tired of seeing this type of thing going on when such high fees are collected. If I may ask, what is the name of RegencySuperior's space authenticator? Couldn't find that info on their site? Might be nice to tell the public who does the authentications. |
cycleroadie Member Posts: 452 From: Apalachin, NY USA Registered: May 2011
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posted 05-20-2016 06:07 AM
quote: Originally posted by Penney Kols: With each of our auctions, successful bidders are welcome to place their winning lot on extension for certification with PSA/DNA.
How many times have we also seen PSA/DNA get things wrong with signed space items? Too many to list here. If a buyer believes an item to be not as represented, you, the auction house should take it back, no questions asked. |
rgarner Member Posts: 1193 From: Shepperton, United Kingdom Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 05-20-2016 07:14 AM
I think I speak for many when I say that there are only two opinions I care for when it comes to authentication and that is Ken Havekotte and Steve Zarelli. |
Rick Mulheirn Member Posts: 4167 From: England Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 05-20-2016 07:59 AM
Ken and Steve are certainly two of the best but there are others I could name: Gerry Montague for starters. |
Tallpaul Member Posts: 153 From: Rocky Point, NY, USA Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 05-20-2016 09:13 AM
I agree with the other comments. Regency was given opinions that reflected the sum of knowledge from a group of individuals who collectively represent over 100 years of knowledge and experience in the field of space collectibles. In a few cases these same individuals have written academic quality studies of astronaut signatures. To ignore their opinions and then suggest that an organization with a less than stellar reputation as the final arbiter of authenticity is surreal. Regency should think about working the community and not disparaging it. |
Steve Zarelli Member Posts: 731 From: Upstate New York, USA Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 05-20-2016 03:31 PM
quote: Originally posted by rgarner: I think I speak for many when I say that there are only two opinions I care for when it comes to authentication and that is Ken Havekotte and Steve Zarelli.
Thank you and I'm flattered... I must note that there are others who posted here for whom I have the utmost respect when it comes to their authentication prowess... Bob McLeod and Mark Janovec. Gerry Montague is another with a ton of experience and an eagle eye. I would take feedback from any of these gentlemen very seriously. (There are others as well, but I'm just reinforcing some who have already been mentioned.) |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 2915 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 05-20-2016 04:35 PM
Ditto on the above from Steve and I am humbled by Richard mentioning my name. In my book, though, with a big thumbs up -- Bob and Mark certainly would qualify as long-term experienced and skilled space autograph authenticators. There is no question about that, I am sure, in anyone's mind. As for myself, I do the best I can with my own separate opinions, but Steve is doing this full-time and keeps an excellent data base of astronaut signatures from a variety of sources, especially of Armstrong and Apollo 11 related. There are others, of course, that Steve had indicated, but there is even a rather unknown space collector, known as Ross, that has my full respect and support as well. |
rgarner Member Posts: 1193 From: Shepperton, United Kingdom Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 05-21-2016 02:48 AM
I'm sure there are many more, as you say, but I've not had the good fortune to meet many! That said, I will be at Spacefest in a few weeks so I am hoping to change that! |