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Topic: [Goldberg] Space memorabilia auction (Dec. 2015)
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SClarkson Member Posts: 23 From: Fairfield, Registered: Sep 2012
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posted 11-27-2015 07:11 AM
Goldberg's next space memorabilia auction is scheduled for Dec. 7, 2015 at about 12:00 p.m. Pacific time. (The time is not exact because there is a collectibles sale that proceeds space.) As always there are many items sure to draw interest. A few highlights include a unique Mercury 6 Astronauts and wives signed agent contract (Slayton's copy), MR-3 flight used umbilical cable, a small section of Mercury heat shield, a Buzz Lightyear action figure signed twice by Aldrin along with many other Aldrin items from his personal collection, several Neil Armstrong autographs, a selection of shuttle camera and computer equipment and an atomic bomb test "trinitite" fragment. Be sure to register with Goldberg's so you are all set to bid. Bids can be submitted on line in advance of the sale or on the 7th when the auction is underway. Good luck all. |
Chuckster01 Member Posts: 873 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 11-27-2015 07:55 AM
I have never understood the rationale of having an auction during normal weekday business hours when the majority of people who might bid on those items will be doing that hum drum thing (called work) that allows them to bid on auctions held on weekend or evenings. Big advantage to eBay.I miss out on most of these auctions just because I work for a living. |
rgarner Member Posts: 1193 From: Shepperton, United Kingdom Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 11-27-2015 08:34 AM
The same could be said for us Brits, I often have to stay awake until 4-5am to bid. I think the term ''you can't please everyone'' rings true in this situation. |
SpaceAholic Member Posts: 4437 From: Sierra Vista, Arizona Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-28-2015 03:50 PM
A number of items (primarily Shuttle) characterized as "FLOWN" for which (legible) images of associated paperwork are not included in the listing (or which no other supporting attributes definitively establish flight heritage). As noted in previous threads scrapping of components occurred pre and post flight so that status alone is not provenance of flight. Prior to bidding, particularly, if doing so with the intent/possibility of subsequent resale, recommend requesting a look at any supporting documentation detailed in the lot listings to come to an independent determination of whether the "FLOWN" designation is appropriate. |
bunnkwio Member Posts: 113 From: Naperville, IL USA Registered: Jul 2008
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posted 11-29-2015 03:43 PM
One item I am curious about is Lot 1101, the surface flown flag. It was presented to Ed Barker from Gene Cernan and comes with copies of the presentation letters.What concerns me is that this was just sold at the Heritage November 5th auction for $11k. Did someone really buy it and decide to flip it within a month? Or is it possible that there are more than one of these with copied coa's floating around? Or worse, are we losing auctions to rival auction companies buying items to list? I'm hoping it is just someone who bought it and decided to quickly sell, but it just seems fishy for something with not-so-rock-solid provenance. |
rgarner Member Posts: 1193 From: Shepperton, United Kingdom Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 11-29-2015 03:58 PM
Auctions make money by charging consignor and winning bidder fees, and it seems to be very profitable in terms of percentages. I doubt any auction house would go out of their way to buy from what is essentially a competitor when they can just as easily request consignments from the collecting world. Do also note the estimate on the auction - why buy high and estimate low?My best guess is there being several of these flags out there. |
SpaceAholic Member Posts: 4437 From: Sierra Vista, Arizona Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-29-2015 04:18 PM
Previous listings of this (or duplicate unmounted articles) included notarization by Michael Orenstein — so perhaps he is also the consignor in this instance. Notarization only attests to true copy, not that the artifact is genuine. And the original document only talks to a single flag — if it is being photocopied and notarized for multiple articles that would also be an area of concern to any potential bidder. |
spaced out Member Posts: 3110 From: Paris, France Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 11-30-2015 08:57 AM
The flag being offered in this Goldberg auction matches the one which was withdrawn from the June 27 Goldberg auction but is not a match for the one that was sold in the latest Heritage auction.The Heritage flag was a match for the one sold in the Dec 1 2012 Goldberg auction. Ed Barker flown flags with the same copied letter were previously sold in the Aurora Spring 2004 auction and fall 2004 auction, at Regency/Superior in fall 2007, and at Goldberg in fall 2009. I don't have good enough images from these four auctions to tell for sure if they match the Goldberg 2012/Heritage 2015 flag but I'm pretty sure none matches the Goldberg 2015 example. In any case there are at least two flags out there accompanied by copies of the Ed Barker letter. What happened to the original letter perhaps we'll never know, unless it's out there somewhere with a third flag... |
NJSPACEFAN Member Posts: 128 From: Ocala, FL USA Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 11-30-2015 09:18 AM
quote: Originally posted by SpaceAholic: Previous listings of this (or duplicate unmounted articles) included notarization by Michael Orenstein — so perhaps he is also the consignor in this instance.
Michael Orenstein passed away after a lingering illness in September of 2012; thus not the consignor. He was a credible and honest pioneer in the space auction field. |
SpaceAholic Member Posts: 4437 From: Sierra Vista, Arizona Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-30-2015 09:48 AM
Here is one of the Orenstein notarizations. The letter states "this flag." Which of the apparently multiple flags appearing on the market does the letter pertain to? Why was the original letter retained in the first place and not included as part of the initial sale with the actual artifact it was intended to certify? |
spaced out Member Posts: 3110 From: Paris, France Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 11-30-2015 01:32 PM
A fellow collector has helpfully pointed out to me a 15 year old thread on this forum which explains he origin of these flags to some extent.I still can't get my head around the explanation for the flags. The Cernan/Evans letter states "This flag" (singular) but according to Orenstein, Barker was given an envelope containing 15 flags by Cernan which Barker noted as having been carried in Cernan's suit pocket during the mission. This explains why Orenstein retained the original letter and made notarised copies to accompany individual flags but unfortunately no reference was made to the existence of multiple flags in the documentation that was created, nor was any attempt made to number them or otherwise identify them as being special. The only person that might be able to shed some light on this now would be Cernan. Whether he would recall the details of this gift from over 40 years ago is open to question but given the small number of flags carried in his APK he might remember having given 15 examples to one person. |
SpaceFerris Member Posts: 57 From: Thornville, OH Registered: Mar 2015
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posted 12-01-2015 02:45 PM
I will be watching Lot 1038 of 1171: Apollo 1 original "Apollo Flight Crew Emblem" crew patch. An earlier auction last month (RR Auction) had an Apollo 1 crew patch sell for $2K and I am guessing this was an aberration. |
Besixdouze Member Posts: 235 From: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 12-02-2015 08:11 AM
Lunar Legacies not RR and, yes, the price took me by surprise too although having just checked, the winning bid has yet to be verified by Invaluable.com. Maybe Donnis has the answer. |
bunnkwio Member Posts: 113 From: Naperville, IL USA Registered: Jul 2008
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posted 12-02-2015 12:42 PM
quote: Originally posted by spaced out: ...he might remember having given 15 examples to one person.
He may, considering that he apparently put an envelope of 15 flags (per Orenstein) in his suit pocket (per Ed Barker), and then gifted the entire envelope to Ed three years after the flight of Apollo 17 (per letter), albeit mistakenly typing "this flag" twice in the letter.Thank you all for your thoughts on this as well as the references. I initially thought I was going crazy having seen the Heritage auction last month. I didn't realize that this item (or should I say items?) has been auctioned so many times. |
Besixdouze Member Posts: 235 From: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 12-09-2015 06:36 AM
Lot 1038, the Apollo 1 Crew Patch, realised $375 ($450 with commission) which pretty much reflects what they've made in the past. |