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  [Lunar Legacies] Space memorabilia (April 2014)

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Author Topic:   [Lunar Legacies] Space memorabilia (April 2014)
Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 29366
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 02-22-2014 12:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lunar Legacies notes:
The next Lunar Legacies Space Memorabilia Auction will be held in late March of this year, and will feature autographs, flown items, hardware, booklets, manuals, patches, badges and much more from all space programs.
Early viewing of the lots is now available on their website.

The auction will be hosted by Live Auctioneers, and the lots will be uploaded two weeks before the auction date for viewing and pre-bidding.

The Space Walk of Fame Foundation has also announced that Lunar Legacies will be holding a free space memorabilia appraisal clinic:

Check in the attic, clean out the closets and from under the bed, bring your space memorabilia to 1026 South Hopkins Ave., Titusville (Pat Fisher's old Nissan building next to the Star Advocate). Lunar Legacies, a leader in space memorabilia auctions since 1999, will be conducting free appraisals, accepting auction consignments and/or cash purchases of your early space memorabilia. Items of interest include cloth patches, access badges, astronaut autographs, spacecraft models, photograph, items flown in space (flags, patches), booklets, manuals, jackets, etc. They will also be buying (paying cash) and accepting for consignment quality items for an upcoming space memorabilia auction.

This Space Memorabilia Appraisal event is sponsored by The U. S. Space Walk of Fame Foundation/Museum. Event to be held at 1026 South Hopkins Ave., Titusville, Florida, Friday, February 28, 10 to 5, Saturday, March 1, 10 to 5 and Sunday March 2, 10-5. For further information contact Karan Conklin at the museum at 321-264-0434 or Don Willis at 321-848-3337.

DOX32
Member

Posts: 218
From: Lakewood Ranch FL USA
Registered: Jul 2004

posted 02-23-2014 04:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DOX32   Click Here to Email DOX32     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome back Donnis. Glad to see this auction active again.

A great auction and resource for space-related items.

mode1charlie
Member

Posts: 586
From: Honolulu, HI, USA
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 02-23-2014 05:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mode1charlie   Click Here to Email mode1charlie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I second what DOX32 said. Welcome back, Donnis.

rgarner
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Posts: 373
From: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 02-23-2014 06:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I for one am very excited for this!

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 29366
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-19-2014 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Donnis shares that the date of the Lunar Legacies auction will be Saturday, April 5 beginning at 10 a.m. PDT (1700 GMT).

He is working to have the catalog available for preview on liveauctioneers.com by March 25.

Tykeanaut
Member

Posts: 1822
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008

posted 03-19-2014 07:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tykeanaut   Click Here to Email Tykeanaut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great looking auction Donnis. Glad to see you back. A few items have already taken my interest.

Philip
Member

Posts: 4945
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 03-22-2014 04:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nothing yet at Live Auctioneers?

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 29366
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-22-2014 08:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As noted above, Donnis said he's working on having the catalog available on Live Auctioneers by March 25.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 29366
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-25-2014 11:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lunar Legacies' April 5, 2014 auction is now live on Live Auctioneers. Donnis Willis notes:
There are many descriptions left for me to write, truncated titles and
descriptions from the uploading process for me to fix, photos to add, etc., and all that will be completed by this Friday, but the bidding numbers are correct and you may pre-bid now if you so choose.

I do accept mail-in bids if you cannot be there live for the auction, so please email me with your list, and we will be glad to bid for you. Please also understand that all mail bids must be confirmed received by me.

Highlights in this auction include:

  • An Apollo 11 flown Silver Snoopy award
  • Astronaut autographed photos from the former Fat Boys Barbecue in Cape Canaveral
  • Atlas, X-15 and Saturn V hardware
  • A large STS-1 flown tile presentation
  • Many early and not-so-early jumpsuits and smocks
  • The Apollo 17 crew parking sign outside the FCTB

NASAgoob
Member

Posts: 37
From: Dallas, Texas, USA
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 04-05-2014 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NASAgoob     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Curious what this really is?
A soft Space Shuttle tile used on the top of the Shuttle, probably at the Payload Bay doors, as a protection against heat exposure, albeit much less heat than elsewhere. RTV remains on the bottom where it was attached. Flown for sure but with no paperwork.

Spaceguy5
Member

Posts: 417
From: Pampa, TX, US
Registered: May 2011

posted 04-05-2014 09:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spaceguy5   Click Here to Email Spaceguy5     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's an Advanced Flexible Reusable Surface Insulation (AFRSI) or Flexible Insulation Blanket (FIB). The RTV on the bottom bonded it to... something. However that doesn't necessarily mean that it's flown, it could have also been used for ground testing. I'm completely unfamiliar with the numbering system on the top, usually vehicle-used insulation would have a part number formatted like 'V070-XXXXXX-XXX'. The weird part number, plus the tiny size makes me wonder if it's a test article.

Lot 453 (which is an item I won) is also an AFRSI/FIB blanket, although it appears to be cut from a larger blanket (since the edges are cut open). The lack of RTV on the back suggests to me that it wasn't used for anything.

NASAgoob
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Posts: 37
From: Dallas, Texas, USA
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 04-05-2014 10:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NASAgoob     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If it says flown - it should be flown. Disappointing.

SpaceAholic
Member

Posts: 3180
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-05-2014 11:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Flown" is a term unfortunately misappropriated by many auctioneers/consignors for obvious reasons. If that claim is made, a bidder should demand specific provenance supporting the assertion.

lunarlegacies
Member

Posts: 92
From: Merritt Island, FL
Registered: Mar 2009

posted 04-06-2014 09:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunarlegacies   Click Here to Email lunarlegacies     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My estimate was $100 to $150 — does that look like I'm trying to misappropriate words to increase sales and take advantage of customers? People easily spend that amount for an unflown tile.

I also said there was no paperwork, so this lot was for someone who wanted a tile such as this.

SpaceAholic
Member

Posts: 3180
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-06-2014 10:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Flown for sure"... indicating that in the lot listing (based exclusively on a consignor's word) doesn't in and of itself constitute validation of provenance nor does the description convey how a determination of flown history is made.

For any bidder initiating a purchase of an item advertised as flown without substantiating provenance; don't be surprised if down the road your investment is lost in the event of a subsequent resale attempt. Citing a previous auction house lot description as evidence of provenance, that simply indicates an item is "Flown", "Flown for Sure" or similar, in the absence of any other artifact physical attributes and/or traceable paperwork authenticating flown history is risky.

Tykeanaut
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Posts: 1822
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008

posted 04-06-2014 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tykeanaut   Click Here to Email Tykeanaut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If a buyer is happy with any auction description then what's the problem?

gliderpilotuk
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Posts: 3163
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 04-07-2014 05:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Misappropriated" is a very accusatory word and whilst "for sure" lacks substantiation ("possibly" or "probably" would be better), it is clear to anyone that they are buying an undocumented item at a starting price that reflects that.

Aside from that, another great auction from Donnis. The LiveAuctioneers software worked seamlessly... even on iPad. Finally, someone has figured out live bidding on iOS!

Spacehardware
Member

Posts: 81
From: Bolney, West Sussex, England
Registered: Jan 2008

posted 04-07-2014 06:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacehardware   Click Here to Email Spacehardware     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tykeanaut:
If a buyer is happy with any auction description then what's the problem?

One piece of advice a fellow collector gave me years ago was 'buy the object, not the story'. Without cast iron provenance, value any item at face value. You won't win any auctions nowadays it seems, but you won't pay over-the-odds or lose a fortune when you come to sell.

rgarner
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Posts: 373
From: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 04-07-2014 09:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sage advice if I do say so myself, but then not everyone is looking to make a profit further down the line. Some people want these pieces for their historical value.

SpaceAholic
Member

Posts: 3180
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-07-2014 10:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Provenance is a key component of an artifact's history. Regardless of whether acquired as an investment or indefinite retention, most collectors are concerned to varying degrees with an item's authenticity.

rgarner
Member

Posts: 373
From: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 04-07-2014 01:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That is true, but sometimes the story IS provenance. While I wouldn't resell anything that didn't have provenance on paper, if someone like Don tells you the source of the material, you take their word for it.

There are some unsavory characters out there, but Don isn't one of them.

kosmo
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Posts: 219
From:
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 04-07-2014 02:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kosmo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rgarner:
That is true, but sometimes the story IS provenance.
No matter whom it comes from, a story is never provenance!

rgarner
Member

Posts: 373
From: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 04-07-2014 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry but I disagree. If you can trace an artifact back to its origins, that is provenance.

There are plenty of artifacts out there which have come from known collections and estates and yet have no paperwork, yet are unquestionable as their history is solid.

But like I said, I wouldn't sell something on without paperwork. If I purchased something without paperwork then it would be for my private collection - and the story must stand up to solid scrutiny.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 29366
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-07-2014 02:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Provenance can comprise many different types of information: it can be a chain of ownership, it can be an owner's account, it can be record of sale, and it can be a document created at the point of origin.

In fact, it is the combination of all of these that form a strong record of provenance. Any one data source alone cannot suffice as provenance beyond reproach.

I can cite a few examples where the source documents were found to be wrong after the owners' accounts pointed to inconsistencies in the record — and vice versa.

rgarner
Member

Posts: 373
From: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 04-07-2014 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here here.

GACspaceguy
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Posts: 1534
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 04-08-2014 06:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why do we have these discussions so often here? No one is forcing anyone to buy these items; they are described by whoever the seller is, whether it is an eBay sale or an auction house as they see fit. They give the story and the paperwork provenance (if any) that they know. It is up to us as buyers to make the decision of what it is worth, even if the plan is for resale.

I have to tell you if I get information from people like Robert, Donnis or Scott I believe they are giving me the best information that they are able to give. Could they be wrong absolutely (sorry guys) were they trying to be deceitful, absolutely not. It is up to me to determine what I do with that information.

For example, the MSFC Saturn V model we picked up was reported by the seller (a MCFC engineer) to have been on display for a time in one of von Braun’s offices. Did I take that into account when I was negotiating the price, no way. Great story and the thought that it may have been there is cool but it did not weigh into my decision. Nor did I post that fact when I posted the picture of our display on this site.

I have typically have been staying away from these emotional topics; however I had to post on this one. I have been blessed beyond belief to be able to add to our collection and do so from all avenues, word of mouth, friends, eBay, auctions and others. In all of that I have found Donnis to be one of the most upstanding seller we have in the community, honest and trust worthy. Take his descriptions for what they are, the best information he has available and is willing to share every bit of it with those who want to buy the item.

Now go focus on those auction houses that would have started the bidding on the same item, with the same provenance, at $2,000.

SpaceAholic
Member

Posts: 3180
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-08-2014 07:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To clarify - the term misappropriated is broadly applied to refer to misapplication of the Flown caveat... it doesn't necessarily reflect an intent to deceive (and I give the benefit of the doubt to Lunar Legacies - don't believe it is their intention to deceive).

My comment primarily pertained to the auction communities predisposition to insert the Flown caveat without exercising due diligence in support of that claim (the obvious reason being increased interest/enhanced valuation).

garymilgrom
Member

Posts: 1735
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 04-08-2014 10:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for garymilgrom   Click Here to Email garymilgrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With no ill will to Lunar Legacies who I have bought from and believe are reputable, here is what I know about AFRSI artifacts like the block in this auction.

I don't think AFRSI blankets are applied to orbiters in small blocks or tile shaped objects. I have such an object, and it appears to be bonded to an aluminum plate like the orbiter's but I believe this to be a test piece.

Photo 1 - AFRSI block bonded to aluminum

AFRSI RTV

Photo 2 - Block close up

afrsi block

Instead I believe this form of insulation is applied in larger blankets like this one.

Photo 3 - AFRSI blanket

AFRSI Blanket

Finally here's a close up of an AFRSI blanket where it meets the edge of an orbiter's white (LRSI) tiles. This shot was taken after orbital repair but seems to confirm, in this section at least, the AFRSI was applied in larger segments.

Photo 4 - AFRSI blankets against tiles

afrsi fix 2 iss015e12180

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