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Author
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Topic: Centaur G Prime: History of the Shuttle-Centaur
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Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-09-2015 10:42 AM
   
Emily Carney reviews the history of Centaur G Prime for Ars Technica: In January 1986, astronaut Rick Hauck approached his STS-61F crew four months before their mission was scheduled to launch. The shuttle Challenger was set to deploy the Ulysses solar probe on a trajectory to Jupiter, utilizing a liquid-fueled Centaur G-Prime stage. While an upcoming launch should be an exciting time for any astronaut, Hauck's was anything but optimistic. As he spoke to his crew, his tone was grave. He couldn't recall the exact quote in a 2003 Johnson Space Center (JSC) oral history, but the message remained clear."NASA is doing business different from the way it has in the past. Safety is being compromised, and if any of you want to take yourself off this flight, I will support you." Hauck wasn't just spooked by the lax approach that eventually led to the Challenger explosion. Layered on top of that concern was the planned method of sending Ulysses away from Earth. The Centaur was fueled by a combustible mix of liquid hydrogen and oxygen, and it would be carried to orbit inside the shuttle's payload bay... |
Lunar rock nut
Member Posts: 911
From: Oklahoma city, Oklahoma U.S.A.
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 10-10-2015 07:37 AM
"WOW" That article sent my thought processes spinning out of control this morning! |
mach3valkyrie
Member Posts: 719
From: Albany, Oregon
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 10-10-2015 01:56 PM
Very interesting article. I remember thinking at the time (late 1985) that having a Centaur rocket in the shuttle payload bay on launch would be begging for trouble. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 10-10-2015 08:14 PM
I have a LOT of the flight data files (FDFs) for 61F and G... too many to scan and post online as PDFs, unfortunately.Here's a photo of a Centaur deployment, signed by most of the crews. Unfortunately, Dave Walker and Mike Lounge aren't around to complete it. And here are two crew-signed covers, signed by the complete 61F and G crews. |
Tom
Member Posts: 1597
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 10-11-2015 08:10 AM
Having followed the shuttle program from the very beginning, I found the "Centaur" article very interesting.I read recently that only the 61-G flight was scheduled to fly with main engines at 109% due to Galileo's weight. On a related topic, were the launches from VAFB scheduled to fly at 109% regardless of payload? |
DaveS_SSU
Member Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Mar 2015
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posted 01-14-2016 12:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
I have a LOT of the flight data files (FDFs) for 61F and G... too many to scan and post online as PDFs, unfortunately.
Hart, which FDFs do you have? I'm interested in seeing a Post-Insertion timeline for either STS-61G or STS-61F. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 01-15-2016 12:03 PM
- Cue Cards and Procedural Decals Book (61F and 61G - two separate FDFs)
- EVA Checklist 61F, G (both in same FDF)
- Orbit Operations Checklist (61F, G)
- Entry Checklist (61G)
- Photo/TV Checklist (61F and 61G)
- Post Insertion (61G)
- Payload Systems Data and Malfunction Procedures (61F/G)
- Crew Activity Plan (61G)
- Ascent Checklist (61G)
- CENTAUR Deploy Checklist (61F, G)
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DaveS_SSU
Member Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Mar 2015
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posted 01-15-2016 05:31 PM
Very nice collection of rare documents. Any chance of seeing the CENTAUR Deploy Checklist? I already have the IUS/AXAF Deploy FDF for STS-93 in electronic format (PDF).
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Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 01-15-2016 08:26 PM
I'll see what I can do. I work odd hours, so it may be a while before I can scan it and upload it to Scribd.Someone had a whole bunch of them, including documents for canceled missions up to and including 61I (chronologically, the last scheduled mission for which I have documentation for.) I doubt 61N would have had public FDFs, if they were done at all, and I lost out on getting documents for 61J. There might be have been documents for 61E, but if so I decided not to get it, concentrating on other, not so well known missions. |
DaveS_SSU
Member Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Mar 2015
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posted 01-16-2016 07:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
I'll see what I can do. I work odd hours, so it may be a while before I can scan it and upload it to Scribd.
Don't rush on my account, I can wait.Is there something like this in the 61G/F FDFs? |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 01-21-2016 11:00 AM
It's almost 60 double-sided pages.This is the start of the actual deploy operations checklist. There are sections on predeploy checks, and post deploy ops. |
DaveS_SSU
Member Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Mar 2015
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posted 01-21-2016 12:16 PM
Nice and good quality for 30+ year old document. But nothing that shows any graphics of the Standard Switch Panels (SSP, these are mounted on the Mission Station on the left side of the aft flightdeck)?Anyhow, it will be nice the see the rest once you find the time to scan it all. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 01-21-2016 10:43 PM
As far as I know, there are no graphics showing the switch placements — it's all verbal, as I presume all the FDFs were from that time period. |
DaveS_SSU
Member Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Mar 2015
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posted 01-22-2016 07:12 AM
Interesting point as to how FDFs evolved through the life of the program. I wonder when they started to do that as I don't think they just one day thought "let's just include a panel overview for the heck of it". Knowing NASA, it has to be due to some event. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 01-22-2016 10:33 AM
I would think in case of an emergency, or even in routine operations, reading/having someone read, "Panel D5: INIT switch to ON. AUX POWER to STANDBY," and so on as well as doing the talkbacks to confirm would be easier that looking at a switch, which all looks the same anyway, and trying to figure out whether the toggle is up, down, or neutral. But that's just me. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-22-2016 10:36 AM
The addition of graphics may have been a sign of the times as desktop publishing became possible and popular with layout programs such as Adobe Pagemaker coming into wider use by the end of the 1980s. |
DaveS_SSU
Member Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Mar 2015
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posted 01-22-2016 03:12 PM
Those are certainly two very plausible reasons why the earlier FDFs lack panel overview graphics. Robert's point might be the actual reason though. |
DaveS_SSU
Member Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Mar 2015
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posted 01-27-2016 04:03 PM
Just a FYI: The San Diego Air & Space Museum has been uploading a lot of Shuttle Centaur photos to their account on Flickr.Recent uploads include several high quality photos of one of the DoD ordered Centaur G (short version). I never knew that the G actually made it into hardware production prior to the program's cancellation in June 1986. |
pokey
Member Posts: 361
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 03-15-2016 10:41 PM
I just began working on the JSC Building 5 Shuttle Mission Simulator in 1985. I recall seeing Coats, and maybe it was Hauck, in the commander and pilot seats of the GNS (at the time) engineering simulator. It was a demo. I'm pretty sure they had not overcome the simulator problems with being unable to dump the payload's fuel during an RTLS in a realistic way by the time this demo occurred. I also recall an engineer was absolutely livid (not during the demo) that another engineer was passing values to his model using terms that the first engineer created for his part of the Centaur model. Then the Challenger tragedy happened and I went to the Outpost for the first time for a "Centaur's Been Cancelled" beer bust. |
DaveS_SSU
Member Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Mar 2015
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posted 03-16-2016 01:59 PM
Interesting. What was the general sentiment regarding the chances of pulling off at least one of the Centaur missions during the week-long window in May of 1986? |
DaveS_SSU
Member Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Mar 2015
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posted 03-31-2016 07:15 PM
Related cS topic: NASA Glenn (Ohio): Shuttle Centaur-G Prime. |
DaveS_SSU
Member Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Mar 2015
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posted 11-18-2016 08:16 PM
I thought I would check in and see if there's been any updates on getting the STS-61F/G FDFs online?Edit: Anything more detailed than this NTRS document on the GSE for the Centaur? Especially on the routing of the H2 lines from the RBUS on the FSS/RSS interstructure to the H2 facility in the northeast corner of the pad(s)? |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 11-18-2016 09:51 PM
None. Sorry, just way too busy. |
DaveS_SSU
Member Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Mar 2015
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posted 11-18-2016 10:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
None. Sorry, just way too busy.
OK. Could you check if there's any mention of any DPS displays (SPECs) in them? |
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