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  Another Ebay item. (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   Another Ebay item.
tegwilym
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posted 02-06-2003 03:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Searching for "shuttle Debris" came up with this poster:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2157676960&category=2211

T.

KLC
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posted 02-06-2003 03:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KLC   Click Here to Email KLC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........... anything for a quick buck I suppose.

Madon_space
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posted 02-06-2003 04:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Madon_space   Click Here to Email Madon_space     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Amazing what some people will sell & amazing what some people will buy.

Cliff Lentz
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posted 02-06-2003 09:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cliff Lentz   Click Here to Email Cliff Lentz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I still have a problem with all the people hovering around a twisted piece of metal and taking pictures. What's worse is posing next to debris. Given the opportunity, I don't know what I would do. I'm sure we would all what to see it. We all probably have theories and seeing something in person might help in these. We probably may even think that we might decipher that "Smoking Gun" that could save the Shutle Program. But it's probably something I'm going to carry in my thoughts forever and I don't need an auctual photo to remind me.

Ben
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posted 02-06-2003 02:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ben   Click Here to Email Ben     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think this just about hits rock bottom for both stupidity and creativity:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3205999190&category=13904

tegwilym
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posted 02-06-2003 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ben:
I think this just about hits rock bottom for both stupidity and creativity:

Ok, you win the prize for finding the lowest Ebay item yet! Pencils??? ugh!

I wonder when the commemorative shot glass or snow globe will be spotted?

Tom
(A bit embarassed to be an Ebayer these days)

[This message has been edited by collectSPACE Admin (edited February 06, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by collectSPACE Admin (edited February 07, 2003).]

JAE
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posted 02-06-2003 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAE   Click Here to Email JAE     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can see someone filling a vial with dirt from the debris area and trying to market that as something significant.

I can see the "sacred ground" comments as I type.

Jeff

[This message has been edited by collectSPACE Admin (edited February 06, 2003).]

scout706
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posted 02-06-2003 03:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scout706   Click Here to Email scout706     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And yet another one. This one was in such a hurry he forgot to check the spelling of all the crew names!!! Kalpana Chawl??? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3206111953&category=13904

Tom

[This message has been edited by scout706 (edited February 06, 2003).]

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-06-2003 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is worse than any pencils: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3206333547&category=13904

[This message has been edited by Robert Pearlman (edited February 06, 2003).]

scout706
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posted 02-06-2003 03:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scout706   Click Here to Email scout706     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
YIKES!!!!!

KLC
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posted 02-06-2003 03:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KLC   Click Here to Email KLC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can we say...... LAME LIST!

BLACKARROW
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posted 02-06-2003 04:19 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert,
I notice it isn't even Columbia in the picture. Excuse me while I throw up.

John K. Rochester
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posted 02-06-2003 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for John K. Rochester   Click Here to Email John K. Rochester     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
..PLUS.. thats not even the STS 107 launch, that orbiter is not Columbia!!

tegwilym
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posted 02-06-2003 06:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dang, I thought we have seen the worst of it, it just keeps getting better!

Personalized Columbia (Discovery) launch photo? Crap.....

I think I need to find a barf bucket. This is just sick!

Ben
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posted 02-06-2003 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ben   Click Here to Email Ben     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A new winner, ladies and gentleman. For this hour that is.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3206584683&category=13904

tegwilym
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posted 02-06-2003 07:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ben:
A new winner, ladies and gentleman. For this hour that is.


NO!!!

Who would WEAR something like this?

[This message has been edited by collectSPACE Admin (edited February 07, 2003).]

WAWalsh
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posted 02-06-2003 10:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WAWalsh   Click Here to Email WAWalsh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Time to offer another. The seller has placed "space shuttle" in the title to capture the search engines, but is merely selling the 16 pins for the Mercury and Gemini missions. Now, there might be something unique about these pins that justifies the $500 opening price (seller requests serious bidders only), but the lack of a better picture or reference to special minting suggests a quick framing of the $4 pins.

Ben
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posted 02-06-2003 10:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ben   Click Here to Email Ben     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have seen a dozen auctions which have nothing to do with anything space related with "space shuttle columbia sts-107 debris" or whatever in the title.

I think that Chevy is a good example.

NC Apollo Fan
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posted 02-06-2003 11:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NC Apollo Fan   Click Here to Email NC Apollo Fan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm afraid that this one is a bit out of my price range...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3206120698&category=13904

KLC
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posted 02-07-2003 01:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KLC   Click Here to Email KLC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LOL! For that price don't you think they could have afforded a photo of some sort to let people know what they are trying to sell?

collshubby
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posted 02-07-2003 06:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for collshubby   Click Here to Email collshubby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is some more crap from E-bay. Anything to make a buck.

STS-107 Crew Photo (for $1000!)
Item 3206902885
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3206902885&category=14438

STS-107 Crew Photo (Proceeds to go to building a new shuttle!)
Item 2157089899
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2157089899&category=14438

STS-107 Clock
Item 3205585420
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3205585420&category=13904

STS-107 Address Labels
Item 2909837028
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2909837028&category=20944

Shuttle debris web domain
Item 3400972080
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3400972080&category=11155

What really burns me is how some of the sellers say how sad they are over the lost of Columbia, but yet are willing to sell a STS-107 patch for $75! A lot of ghouls out there.

At least two auctions on E-bay are worth looking at:

STS-107 Press Kit
Item 3206194486
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3206194486&category=13904

Info on Columbia Memorabilia
Item 3205616916
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3205616916&category=13904

------------------
Brian Peter
astronautbrian@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by collectSPACE Admin (edited February 07, 2003).]

spaceman
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posted 02-07-2003 07:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaceman   Click Here to Email spaceman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And we'll wonder why astronauts will be reluctant to sign things in the future or be associated with collectors. They are wll aware many signed items etc still have wet ink when they appear on e-bay.The items above are the lowest of the low. I'm sure once this dies down we true fans and collectors will get the blame somewhere for the activities of the ghouls.
It was very much the same with Princess Diana. Some tacky items were produced during her lifetime but when she tragically died her image was attached to anything and still is to make a profit it became an industry.
Nick.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-07-2003 08:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Brian,

Even the auctions you refer to as "worth looking at" are questionable --

"Info on Columbia Memorabilia" promotes buying at the privately-operated employee gift shop at NASA but uses illustrations of Countdown Creations products (without permission I might add). So while the thought may be in the right place, this "seller" is also being dishonest.

Paul
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posted 02-07-2003 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul   Click Here to Email Paul     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Folks,
You're watching the "Jerry Springer Syndrome"
in full force!

If nobody watches the "show"...the "show"
becomes history and is terminated!

selah,
Paul

Philip
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posted 02-07-2003 11:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great summary and thanks for pointing the things out for us BRIAN ...
Best regards from BELGIUM !

chet
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posted 02-07-2003 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chet   Click Here to Email chet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Spaceman wrote:
I'm sure once this dies down we true fans and collectors will get the blame somewhere for the activities of the ghouls.

I wouldn't worry too much about this. The only ones who'd associate the true die-hard collectors with the grifters on Ebay are those who are somewhat ignorant themselves. I certainly don't think the astronauts or Nasa personnel would lump those truly interested in their activities, and space flight in general, together in with the really sordid opportunists.
And I wouldn't even fault Ebay as much as I've seen it criticized in the forums here.
Ebay is first and foremost a business, and it merely reflects a trading community that is itself a reflection of human nature. If Ebay is to be criticized, it shouldn't be without the acknowledgement of this context. If there are ghouls out there, Ebay is just providing the forum for us to see them (and just as it allows us to see the activities of the dealers with greater integrity). It makes as much sense to fault Ebay for allowing all this STS-107 material so soon after the tragedy as it does to fault our right to free speech in this country when we come across speech we find objectionable.

-Chet

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posted 02-07-2003 12:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ger_sam   Click Here to Email Ger_sam     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I want to thank Brian Peter (astronautbrian@hotmail.com) for mentioning my auction on eBay which provides info to the web site for "the privately-operated employee gift shop at NASA" where STS-107 can be purchased. At least THAT site are members of the NASA family. And as far as using pictures from another web site, I plead guilty. But I can say I'm not profiting at all from anything in this listing. The "moderator" failed to mention that I also mentioned the "froogle.google" website where anyone could do their own search and purchase wherever the wanted. Thanks again Brian...at least YOU knew my heart was in the right place.

[This message has been edited

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-07-2003 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
eBay is a company Chet, not a free republic. Yes, they are in business and they have chosen to profit from this tragedy.

If they hadn't imposed a moratorium for 9-11 WTC and Pentagon memorabilia, then they could say that it was technically impossible or against their company policy to take such actions. But they did.

Where are the announcements from eBay that they would donate their proceeds from STS-107 memorabilia to the families? Or to the Challenger Centers for continuing space education?

They are not there because eBay has decided to profit from this tragedy.

Yes, the sellers are at fault. I'll even concede that the buyers are at fault. As was recently written in News Journal: "Sellers called scum exist because of buyers called dumb."

But at the heart of it is eBay. As you point out Chet, eBay provides the forum to highlight the ghouls. That's a conscious decision on eBay's part. If they are responsible for their actions (not auctions), then they are equally targets for the blame.

[This message has been edited by Robert Pearlman (edited February 07, 2003).]

Paul
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posted 02-07-2003 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul   Click Here to Email Paul     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Couldn't agree with you more, Robert.

Paul

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-07-2003 12:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ger_Sam --

I apologize for my hasty reply but you have to understand that for the past few days I have been dealing with seller after seller using our graphics for their profit. It was wrong to single you out.

I understand you had good intentions.

(BTW, the ShopNASA.com is not endorsed by NASA. They are a commercial contractor, just like The Space Store (where the astronauts shop) and Countdown Creations (who produces the apparel for the astronauts' families). They are all members of the NASA family, if you want to put it that way...)

[This message has been edited by Robert Pearlman (edited February 07, 2003).]

John K. Rochester
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posted 02-07-2003 02:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for John K. Rochester   Click Here to Email John K. Rochester     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
..by the way Robert, you made my local paper this morning..they quoted you in a story entitled "Scramble on for Shuttle Souvenirs" Robert Pearlman of the WEb site www.collectspace.com wrote this message.." like many, we've been sickened to watch opportunists race to eBay with every patch, pin, and T-shirt related to Columbia. It's not that we object to their sale; it's the tremendous mark -up being added to take advantage of a nation in mourning. This is not supply and demand. This is greed." Another reason to be proud to be a CollectSpacie!!

chet
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posted 02-07-2003 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chet   Click Here to Email chet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've a few problems with some of your arguments, Robert.

First, by pointing out that Ebay did put a moratorium on 9/11 stuff, but didn't do the same in the case of the Shuttle tragedy, you're equating the magnitude of the events. I don't believe this is intentional on your part, and I'm sure you don't see them as equal in that respect, but you are highlighting the non-distinction just the same by calling for a similar moratorium. (BTW, it has been my impression that there has been a "spike" in the bidding on all space related items on Ebay; I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. In that respect, and by your criteria, every space dealer has "chosen" to profit from this tragedy).

Second, you ask where is the announcement from Ebay that they will donate their proceeds from the sale of STS-107 memorabilia to the families. Robert, you have got to be kidding on this one. Ebay is a corporation. They might choose to do such a thing, and it would be admirable and commendable if they did, but you make it sound obligatory. Recognize Ebay for what it is, and what it claims itself to be. It is a trading platform, and one that exists to generate profits for its shareholders. It acts wholly within the boundaries of the law, and it "acts" not in a moral way, or in an immoral way, but AMORALLY. That is what a corporation does. That said, as most corporations do, Ebay does sponsor many worthy causes and does donate to various charities. I choose to recognize that they are responsible to the community in that manner. I do not choose to single them out any more than I would CNN for not giving a share of their increased advertising revenues to the Nasa families when their viewership spiked in the immediate aftermath of the Columbia tragedy.

Third, I disagree with your characterization of Ebay's having "conciously" decided to profit from the tragedy. Ebay did not change one thing about the way they conduct their business as a result of the accident. It might have been heartwarming to us as space enthusiasts to see them give this event some really special treatment, but I have no more right to expect it from them than if I were a Kennedy clan fan and they didn't slap a moratorium on Kennedy stuff after John Kennedy Jr.'s plane went down.

I don't own any Ebay stock, and I'm not in any way a "wild" Ebay enthusiast. I just think it's pointless to single Ebay out as a dubious actor in this instance. There is a difference between immoral and amoral behavior, and I think you are letting emotion blur that distiction. If Ebay were truly acting immorally, I believe there are many good people on this forum who would boycott them to make that kind of statement. I don't think that will happen however, not because people aren't interested in doing the right thing, but because I believe, respectfully, Robert, you are mistaken.

[This message has been edited by collectSPACE Admin (edited February 07, 2003).]

Cliff Lentz
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posted 02-07-2003 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cliff Lentz   Click Here to Email Cliff Lentz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm just curious why ebay allows these dealers to ask for outrageuos first bids on the STS 107 patch. I've seen in four different sites that the patch is still being offered for the $4.95 price which is normal. Yet they allow them to set an opening bid WAY, WAY, WAY OUT of proportion. I have the uneasy feeling that the buyer believes that these actually where on Columbia and not just acquired from a NASA store.

chet
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posted 02-07-2003 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chet   Click Here to Email chet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cliff, can you imagine Ebay price policing every item that went up on their site? The
determination of value of any item is up to the buyer.
I've often heard the expression "A fool and his money are soon parted"; in the last few days I've been wondering how did so many fools and their money ever get together in the first place?

-Chet

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-07-2003 04:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chet --

I formatted your message so it read clearer. I didn't change the content.

Regarding the content however...

I disagree with your assessment that eBay only acts amorally. What amoral reason did eBay have for the moratorium on 9-11 items?

Regardless the scale of the two events, the results on eBay were the same. Immediately following the tragedies, sellers and buyers rushed to "make millions" off the sale of memorabilia -- only in one case, eBay thought it appropriate to put an end to the sales until such time its users had an opportunity to come to terms with what had transpired. With over 10,000 shuttle related items now for auction, are we to believe that the response has not been large enough for eBay to notice a similar post-9/11 effect?

The sorry state of affairs is that we probably have reached a peak of sorts (with media attention turning to Iraq) and whatever damage was possible has been done.

Thats not to say that now is not the time to evaluating eBay auctions over the past week. I stand by my opinion that the way in which the company operated was inappropriate.

--

Addendum: I should also add, that within those 10,000 lots are a lot of fraud. Its too large a task for any one person to combat; but if eBay wanted to keep their listings open, they should have keep a closer eye on the space shuttle category.

[This message has been edited by Robert Pearlman (edited February 07, 2003).]

chet
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posted 02-07-2003 04:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chet   Click Here to Email chet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert, first, thanks for editing my prior post - - it was an aesthetic mess and you made it look so much better.

As to your reply, I'd say this: You help make my case by pointing out that Ebay did one thing in the aftermath of 9/11, and something else in the event of the Columbia disaster. BTW, I didn't say Ebay ALWAYS acted amorally. But the actions they took after the 9/11 attacks indicate Ebay does recognize, based on the magnitude of events, what decorum calls for.
The 9/11 attacks were just that, an attack on ALL OF US, as AMERICANS. We were all threatened that day.
It's harder for us as space enthusiasts to feel more objectively about the subject, but still we must face the fact that there are many people who couldn't give a rat's ass about the space program. This is not to say it wasn't a terrible tragedy, and I don't mean to trivialize the impact it must have had on the families and friends of those killed, but there's no way this can compare to the impact of 9/11. I think Ebay recognized that distinction clearly, and so I think they did not act inappropriately by allowing the sale of STS-107 related items to continue. I have been very offended by many sellers' practices on Ebay recently, but again, Ebay didn't change anything about their business model in the aftermath of the Columbia disaster; I don't think it was necessary.

-Chet

tegwilym
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posted 02-07-2003 04:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Another totally pointless item....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3206655337&category=13904


STS-107 Lighter?

Rodina
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posted 02-07-2003 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rodina   Click Here to Email Rodina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Hey,

A couple of assorted thoughts:

(a) How could you tell that launch photo wasn't Columbia? The lack of the blister at the top of the tail, or are you just a bunch of savants?

(b) I'll defend EBay here - the amoral reason not to allow 9-11 merchandise was that, on a human toll, it was a scale 1,000 times larger (based on initial, early casualty estimates) and that no one was paying any attention to anything else. Any effort seen to be profiting off of that would have been very bad PR indeed, far worse than any collateral effects that EBay might suffer from this -- there are far more things going on in the world right now, with a war on Iraq and such, and tragic that it is, I'm guessing that EBay doesn't want to set a precedent (9/11 being unprecedented) that they are going to be the arbiters of taste. There's a lot of stuff on Ebay which is offensive, but EBay isn't in the charm business, they are in the volume of sales business and they don't want one of the other auction houses to uses this as a wedge (i.e., "we never censor our sellers"). You drop the threshold to 7, brave as these guys were, and pretty soon you'll have people asking for die-cast models to be taken off Ebay the next time an Air Thai 777 crashes in southern China.

(c) Robert - I don't know whether Countdown Creations has legal representation (and I'm not offering my services, that's not the kind of work I do (questions? email me)), but if you want to chase these people down - I'd suggest writing up a "Nasty-Gram" cease-and-desist letter and making it stock, don't fire off individual emails. You probably already thought of that, but it's always a good idea to be consistent with these folks, and then you never have to question what you said.

(d) Finally, you can find copies of the indictments against shuttle debris looters here: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/shuttleloot1.html

Best,
-Andrew

Ben
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posted 02-07-2003 08:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ben   Click Here to Email Ben     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is not STS-107, but it is certainly one of the more unique items of space memorabilia I have seen in the ebay space section:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2158437023&category=416

GTspace
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posted 02-07-2003 08:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GTspace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Where are the announcements from eBay that they would donate their proceeds from STS-107 memorabilia to the families? Or to the Challenger Centers for continuing space education?

They are not there because eBay has decided to profit from this tragedy.


Exactly Robert, where are the announcements?

Take a look at the link below and check out some of the people that work at eBay and the multi millions in stock that they have sold, now hold etc…..
http://biz.yahoo.com/t/e/ebay.html

I mean even a “secretary” is worth millions and eBay has decided to profit even further from this tragedy. Simply disgusting!


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