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  Nasa book to combat doubts. (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   Nasa book to combat doubts.
andrewcarson
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posted 11-06-2002 07:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for andrewcarson   Click Here to Email andrewcarson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Everyone,

Nasa set to publish book re: Conspiracy theory.
Perhaps releasing something along the lines of this publication could have saved the hassle some Apollo Astronauts have endured,
and shut Sibrel and company up once and for all.!!!! See http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in=science&cat=astronomy_and_space_news

Regards,

Andrew

[This message has been edited by andrewcarson (edited November 06, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by andrewcarson (edited November 06, 2002).]

mark plas
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posted 11-06-2002 07:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mark plas   Click Here to Email mark plas     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It truly is a shame NASA has to do this.
But it is for the good of history.

Rodina
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posted 11-06-2002 09:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rodina   Click Here to Email Rodina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I think the US Geological Survey should print a refutation that the world is flat.

Perhaps the National Institute of Health can discuss why the four humours are no longer state-of-the-art medical science.

The Centers of Disease Control can write up a little pamphlet "Leeching: useful, but more limited than we thought."

What a waste of time and money. How about a press release that says this:

"People who don't think we went to the Moon are morons."


John K. Rochester
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posted 11-06-2002 10:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for John K. Rochester   Click Here to Email John K. Rochester     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rodina, why couldn't you have come up with that yesterday.. I wouldn't have wasted my votes on someone else.. Rodina for NASA Administrator!!!!

pokey
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posted 11-06-2002 11:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pokey   Click Here to Email pokey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I thought I read that Oberg is being paid $15K to write the book. Not a tremendously big outlay of NASA $$$$'s if that's the case.

chet
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posted 11-06-2002 05:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chet   Click Here to Email chet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rodina, you're so dead on right, it aint
funny! Whoever approved the $15,000 for
this asinine project should be canned immediately. Can anyone really imagine
anyone who thinks the moon landings weren't
real being swayed by a book put out by
the people they believe faked the landings!
And why should we care about the miscreants
who'd believe such tripe in the first place?
Sounds just like the plan to improve
education in this country by funding
remedial reading and writing classes
in community colleges. If the problem
has gotten that far, the solution isn't
going to help much.
Mr. Sibrel, if he's gotten wind of this
ridiculous idea by Nasa, must be laughing
his ass off!

-Chet

Robert Pearlman
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posted 11-06-2002 06:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You guys are missing the point -- this book isn't for the scoundrals that are popularizing the lie, its for the uninformed and gullible who are believing it for lack of any rebuttal.

I know teachers who have begged NASA for just such a publication because their students saw the FOX special and now believe we didn't go the Moon. For NASA to respond "trust us, we did" isn't enough.

Its all about providing tools. Provide community leaders with a concise rebuttal to common misconceptions and then they are armed with the facts to combat and prevent the lie from spreading.

(Full disclosure: I am contributing resources to Jim Oberg for this publication, though I am not being paid for my services.)

Rizz
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posted 11-06-2002 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This really is a great idea - geared towards the folks who are "confused" or "unsure" of the facts.

We (collectSPACE folks) all know the facts.

When irresponsible people and TV networks, cloud the truth, most people don't know where to go for the facts.

This is a great opportunity to educate the masses, and what better place to come from, than NASA.

Aloha,

Frank

Rodina
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posted 11-06-2002 06:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rodina   Click Here to Email Rodina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I suppose I hadn't considered it as being useful for a teacher faced with little urchins who watched FOX's bit of paranoia.

To wit, I'll compromise in my position, Robert, and support this, but I still think NASA should issue a press release precise as set forth above.

It's still freaking insulting to spend money on this thing.

Aztecdoug
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posted 11-06-2002 06:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aztecdoug   Click Here to Email Aztecdoug     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would love to have NASA send the bill to Fox for publishing the lies in the first place!

------------------
Warm Regards

Douglas Henry

Enjoy yourself and have fun.... it is only a hobby!

chet
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posted 11-06-2002 09:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chet   Click Here to Email chet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unless I'm wrong, there are TONS of information already out there that back
up the claim that man has landed on the
moon. (Not to mention several hundred
pounds of moon rocks). How much more money must be spent in such a redundant way?
This starts to become a child's game of
yes we did, no you didn't, yes we did.....
what's next, food fights in the cafeteria?
If all the educational material already made available
to teachers by Nasa isn't enough to get the job done, I'd say the problem lies with
the educators, not that Nasa hasn't
already spent enough money to make its case.
And besides, what information will there
be in this book that will be so much more
convincing than what's already been put out there? If people, yes even young people,
want to so stubbornly hang on to such ignorant beliefs, I don't see it as Nasa's
responsibility (i.e., me, the taxpayer)
to chase them down and hit them over the
head with the facts. Government agencies waste enough public money as it is.
We landed on the moon. The facts are there
for those seeking them. There are better uses for $15,000. End of story.
(And my diatribe).

-Chet

Robert Pearlman
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posted 11-06-2002 09:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just because the information exists on the 'net, doesn't mean that a) its all valid information (I've seen some well intentioned sites get the physics and astronomy wrong); and b) that its easily accessed by everyone. Assuming everyone has access to the web is economically-biased.

I don't see why one small monologue -- basically a lesson in lunar and space physics, astronomy, and engineering -- should attract so much objection. Think of it as a refresher science course 30 years after you graduated.

Of course, this wouldn't be a problem at all if we were still landing humans on the Moon. Can we really blame Americans for forgetting how we did go to the Moon when a whole generation has passed since we made the voyage?

chet
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posted 11-06-2002 10:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chet   Click Here to Email chet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Assuming everyone has access to the web is economically-biased.
---------------------------------
Who ever said anything about the internet?
REAMS of educational material is available
to teachers directly from Nasa, not to mention the GIGABYTES that do exist
on the net.
Besides, how many schools are there in America without ANY internet access?
(Today it's more a matter of some school districts having DSL access, whereas others
have to get by with just dial-up).
____________________________________
I don't see why one small monologue -- basically a lesson in lunar and space physics, astronomy, and engineering -- should attract so much objection. Think of it as a refresher science course 30 years after you graduated.
-----------------------------------
I object because there's enough information
out there already, and for the same reason I object to remedial reading and writing classes for community colleges (and, amazingly, even at some universities!)
I don't see why it's necessary to spend MORE. You seem to see
the problem as one of there not being
ANY information available to counter
the landing-hoax argument, unless Nasa
puts out this book. That just isn't the case. As I see it, the problem has much more to do with a population that can more easily recall the words to the opening theme from Gilligan's Island than to the Pledge of Allegiance. Throwing more
resources at a problem when there are
already resources available is, by definition, wasteful.
_____________________________________

Of course, this wouldn't be a problem at all if we were still landing humans on the Moon. Can we really blame Americans for forgetting how we did go to the Moon when a whole generation has passed since we made the voyage?
-------------------------------------
I'm all for returning to the moon, to harvest its resources and for the scientific gains to be realized by doing so, but
that isn't the issue. Educating the public
about HOW we got to the moon isn't the
question either. It is WHETHER we went
to the moon at all, and I think by entertaining the premise too seriously we do our
children a disservice (not to mention all the people who made the moon landing happen in the first place).
The kooks peddling the hoax
nonsense should be ignored, not taken
seriously as truly inquiring minds.
The ones with truly inquiring minds who
entertain doubt will always be capable of discovering the truth if that's what they seek. And the resources for them
to do so are already available.
I know your intentions are good Robert, but should
the government be spending money anytime any skeptical premise is raised, no
matter how outlandish? It reaches a point
where too much insistence on the truth begins to make the truth look suspect.
Those so easily convinced by loony-tune arguments are unlikely to be set
straight by mere "facts", and where the
facts are already made available, making
them "more" available, is, to me, wasteful.
(BTW, can you guess how I voted yesterday?)

-Chet

Rizz
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posted 11-06-2002 10:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To spend $15,000 to revisit Mankinds greatest accomplishment is a drop in the bucket.

I'm a little passionate about this subject for a number of reasons.

First of all, our future is largely dependent on the youth of today. Having said that, it is vital to address the obvious fact that there are a significant number of people who do not know the facts about the Apollo missions. Granted, there IS a ton of stuff available, but there is also information overload and disinformation overload, ESPECIALLY since the creation of the Internet.

Anyone can claim anything, and word spreads almost instantly around the globe, and since itís in writing, a lot of people just believe it.

I know of a few highly educated adults that arenít quite sure about the moon landings, and thatís pretty sad. And before you make any judgments about these people, I ask you to sincerely inquire around your own circle of friends or business associates and yes, even young children. Youíll be shocked. Iíve said it before Ė it is all of our responsibility to educate.

It is easy to criticize people and to bitch and moan about things, but to take action, and to be a part of the solution takes a different kind of person.

Young people are the most vulnerable, but so are many adults. The fact that NASA wants to at least address this issue or concern by taking a proactive step in re-educating the public is very commendable.

These historic events took place over a relatively short period of time, and then stopped.

Take a serious look at who the leader of our country is and his thoughts about the space program. I donít even want to start with a debate about it, but itís truly very disappointing.

Good luck to everyone who wants to take part in this endeavor.

It took a long while, but now everyone on this planet is convinced that the Earth really isnít flat!

The same truth will prevail about Apollo. The sooner, the better.

And people like Sibrel will go down in history as just another knucklehead!

Aloha,

Frank


[This message has been edited by Rizz (edited November 06, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Rizz (edited November 06, 2002).]

chet
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posted 11-06-2002 11:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chet   Click Here to Email chet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Should it take $15,000 to cull all the information that would go into this book
and just make one really informative
website that could be easily accessed
by educators?
The effort by Nasa IS commendable, yes,
but I still don't see the need to spend the
extra money. The problem isn't
THIS $15,000......it's this $15,000,
and THAT $15,000, and that $15,000 and....
well, you get the idea.
As for our current leader and his thoughts
about the space program, all I'll say is this - - he is no different than any other
of our Presidents when it comes to the
"vision thing" about space exploration.
(Do you really believe Kennedy would've
been talking about going to the moon if
there weren't a race on with the Russians?)
Finally, as far as just "bitching and moaning" about things - - I don't believe
simply throwing money at things makes
for any kind of special badge of caring,
as though those of us who believe in a
little fiscal conservatism are callous
about important issues. I take the
allocation of limited resources seriously,
and believe the proper administration of
funds is just as vital a function to the carrying out of the other important endeavors we aren't discussing here.
A question: If after this book comes
out, there are still a good number of
people who are "unclear" about the
lunar landings, how much more money
do we allocate to fix it AGAIN?

-Chet

Rizz
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posted 11-07-2002 12:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know what the outcome of this book will bring - but I do think that it is a big step in the right direction.

I respect your views about allocating limited resources. I am looking at it as an educational tool, and again it is not that much money if you consider the fact that it may really help change the way people see the Apollo missions.

The comment I made about bitching and moaning was not directed towards anyone in particular. I hope no one takes offense. I was speaking in general terms only.

To address your question - I don't know the answer, but I believe that every little bit of positive information will help make everyone come to the realization that we did in fact go to the moon!

Aloha,

Frank

[This message has been edited by Rizz (edited November 07, 2002).]

eurospace
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posted 11-07-2002 04:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for eurospace   Click Here to Email eurospace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rodina:

I think the US Geological Survey should print a refutation that the world is flat.

Perhaps the National Institute of Health can discuss why the four humours are no longer state-of-the-art medical science.

The Centers of Disease Control can write up a little pamphlet "Leeching: useful, but more limited than we thought."

What a waste of time and money. How about a press release that says this:

"People who don't think we went to the Moon are morons."


Add to that list:
- No, Adam and Eve were not the first Humans
- No, there was not just someone (called God) who created Humans just like that.
- No, no immaculate perception.

You might just have opened a can of worms, still ... :-)

------------------
JŁrgen P Esders
Berlin, Germany
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Astroaddies

derek
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posted 11-07-2002 05:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for derek   Click Here to Email derek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Presumably Oberg's book will only have pictures so the conspiracy guys can understand it; they could always get their kids to read any writing out loud to them.

------------------

ALAIN
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posted 11-07-2002 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ALAIN     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is this book for sale to the General Public ?

scout706
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posted 11-07-2002 12:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scout706   Click Here to Email scout706     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My wife is a 6, 7th and 8th grade language arts teacher. For the last several years, I have been invited to her school to talk about the space program. It has always been fun, except for the last couple of years since the Fox "special". Several posts have talked about how it is the eduacators problem and NASA provides plenty of material, and even more is available on the Internet. Well... not that much material is related to the Apollo program, most of it is science and physics related, and what manned program stuff that is available trends toward the shuttle and ISS. The Internet is not really a viable option at least during school hours. Im agine trying to keep 30 internet-savy kids all on the same page, at the same time!! I personally would welcome this book. I lament the fact that is even neccessary however. It is quite a humbling experience to be in front of 30 pre-teens trying to convince them that the "ancient history" actually happened. I have taken the postion now, that I will ignore the "trouble makers" and continue with my presentation. I feel that it is waste of the precious little time that I have to ignite some kind interest or passion in the Space program to try and "defend" my position. I hope that this book can help at least a little.

Thomas Griggs

andrewcarson
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posted 11-07-2002 12:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for andrewcarson   Click Here to Email andrewcarson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think for the cost of publishing this book, $15,000.00 it is probably money well spent. I wonder if the recent incident -Sibrel and Buzz Aldrin has any bearing on the idea of publishing the book? _ I dont know - someone may know the answer.??
I have no doubts whatsoever of the authenticity of Apollo and the Moon landings. On occaision`s when I have been in company, people who know of my hobby/interests who have watched Kaysing/Sibrel venting their poison have argued with me regarding the validity of history. From my point of view I believe that it will do Nasa no harm to publish a book to educate those less informed than the members of groups such as this one.
People who have no interest in this hobby will listen to the Sibrels of this world.
I feel that Nasa now acknowledging and putting down the lies and deception brought about by Sibrel and company will not be a bad thing and probably worth that small sum of money.
I think Nasa should use this opportunity to once again remind the world of Apollo and the moon landings, and to commend the crewmembers of Apollo who risked their lives to reach the moon.
The same men such as Ed Mitchell, Alan Bean, Buzz Aldrin to name a few,- who still make themselves available to sign autographs, attend shows, and respond to the requests of members of groups such as ours..... some thirty years later.

chet
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posted 11-07-2002 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chet   Click Here to Email chet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hate to belabor the points I've already
made, but why not a comprehensive web site
that any teacher could point out to
any doubting or interested student, and
that any fair-minded adult could review
anytime they wanted?
The same info that would go into any
book could be found and reviewed online,
would probably be accessed by many more
people than will ever see the book version,
and would be far more cost effective.
I still haven't heard a convincing
argument here why the book version
and the greater outlay of money is
preferable.

-Chet

Robert Pearlman
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posted 11-07-2002 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With all due respect Chet, I don't know a professional web developer who would do the same treatment Oberg is doing for this topic for any less than $15000. In fact, with hosting fees and related expenses, it might be more expensive. (And who's to say that once the book is written -- like they do with many of their publications -- that they won't put the text online?)

The research and writing needed to pull this together would need to be done regardless the medium, and that requires an outlay of money.

WAWalsh
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posted 11-07-2002 03:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WAWalsh   Click Here to Email WAWalsh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This topic is the front page of AOL today with a sidebar opportunity for people to post their opinions and viewpoints. The postings suggest that this nation is in deep, deep trouble. The petty name calling is even more annoying than the numerous posts from people questioning the validity of the lunar landings.

Rizz
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posted 11-07-2002 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is my understanding that people retain more information having read it from a book, that reading the same stuff off of the internet.

Frank

chet
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posted 11-07-2002 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chet   Click Here to Email chet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nasa already has many thousands of web pages
online; I'm sure getting the moon-hoax
counter arguments up and running without the need for large infusions of cash wouldn't be that difficult. Same goes for the argument about maintaining a web presence - - Nasa's already got one, last I checked. And let's not forget the really large costs of printing and distributing many thousands of copies of this book. From my understanding, the $15,000 only covers the ingathering, reasearch and writing up of the material to get it in book form. How much will the book version cost, after Oberg and then printing and distribution, as opposed to just a web site with the same information?
As to the retention of information argument, if someone is swayed by the argument as presented online, they should STAY swayed. There isn't a need for anyone to remember the entire argument that backs up the landings, just the conclusion. If someone has trouble retaining the conclusion, money needs to be spent on a medical doctor, not the printing of more
book copies.
WAWalsh's news about the online reaction
to the actuality of the lunar landings
is indeed very sad. But this just underscores to me that Nasa just needs to put out some official information and then leave the matter alone. The knuckleheads will never be done away with, even with a new book to "enlighten" them, while the fair minded with legitimate questions can satiate their curiosities by looking the pertinent info up online. This shouldn't be that big a deal.

-Chet

Robert Pearlman
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posted 11-07-2002 04:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chet, its an insult to all web developers, journalists, and researchers alike that you think content creation is as simple as just deciding to do it. Regardless the medium, someone has to research, author, and present clearly and concisely the information. Whomever that person is, shouldn't he/she be compensated for their time?

Throwing together a quick response to the moon hoax would do more damage than good. Leaving out rebuttals to issues already raised to the public consciousness would only work to validate the debunkers claims that NASA really doesn't have an answer to their challenges.

No, if NASA is going to respond to the hoax claims, then they have to do so professionally and comprehensively.

I have to say, I am somewhat surprised that we are even having this discussion here. First, the idea of NASA publishing books is nothing new (and for Chet's sake, NASA charges for the books they distribute, to recoup publishing fees). Second, why is it so controversial that NASA would respond to what the public desires? Is it better that they stick their heads in the sand and pretend the issue doesn't exist? Third, we're talking about 15K -- a true drop in the bucket when you look at NASA's budget or for that matter, what most authors are compensated these days by commercial publishers.

chet
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posted 11-07-2002 05:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chet   Click Here to Email chet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, hate to have to go through this again, but here goes:

I NEVER said this project should be done pro bono. I don't see my position as
insulting when web developers across the country are begging to author the most
dazzling websites for hundreds, not thousands, of dollars. Besides, Nasa already has salaried
people working to maintain their VERY vast web presence that puts out
TONS of information. In fact, I have already seen the issue of the "the hoax" addressed,
by Nasa, online. It hasn't stopped the knuckleheads who believe the conspiracy theories,
and the teachers obviously haven't been making good enough use of it, and the other
resources available, to clearly explain that we did indeed land on the moon. So again, is
the answer to just throw ever more resources at the problem?
This whole thing is becoming a microcosm of the problem with education in America
today in general; it's a CULTURAL problem that cannot be fixed by simply throwing more
money at it. Nevertheless, I say again, that Nasa trying to do something about it is commendable.
But again Robert, why a book? Is a book the ONLY way Nasa could state its
case clearly, professionally and comprehensively? It is my opinion they only need
expand on the "debunking-the-hoax-theory" info that is ALREADY online.
As for Nasa charging for the books they distribute, Robert, a few points. First, I'd be
very flattered if they did so just for MY sake, as you stated, but if it's to try to recoup
some money for Joe Taxpayer, that's a good thing, but not entirely accurate insofar
as painting a picture of this as an enterprise that doesn't cost Joe Taxpayer much.
When Nasa distributes these books to school districts, it's still Joe Taxpayer
picking up the tab - - the number of books bought by the public is negligible in comparison.
Second, Robert, you keep insisting on and repeating the amount of $15,000 for this project,
ignoring the fact that I've stated already, namely, that the actual printing and distribution costs
will add to that total many times over. Continuing to insist on the $15,000 figure is misleading.
I'm not opposed to education, and I'm not saying Nasa shouldn't spend ANYTHING.
I'm simply against the redundant and inefficient use of funds as earmarked for this project in its current form.
(BTW, sorry for the formatting here,
but this is pasted in from another
word program).

-Chet

Robert Pearlman
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posted 11-07-2002 05:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one Chet. Personally, I see nothing wrong with a book, in fact I encourage it.

(And as a point of clarification, I do not believe the GPO distributes books to educators free of charge. They may offer an educational rate, but these are not freebies handed out at conferences. The books are available for order for a fee -- sometimes quite steep (similar to recent release "Challenge to Apollo" and "Exploring the Unknown")).

WAWalsh
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posted 11-07-2002 06:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WAWalsh   Click Here to Email WAWalsh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the end, I am not sure what value the book will have with respect to the true conspiracy theorists. Despite NASA's repeated publication of more recent and substantially better photographs, certain people still believe that there is a large face carved on a hill on Mars.

The comments on AOL reflect a disturbing shortage of scientific knowledge. Any number of people suggested that NASA should simply point the Hubble telescope at the Moon and take pictures of the flags and descent stages on the surface. Other suggest that the absence of a huge crater under the LM due to the thrust from the engine confirms the hoax position. Many also argue that if we did go to the Moon, how come we never went back over the past 30 years (a valid question on a very different level). One post I saw suggested that the fact that the suits were covered in dust proved it was a hoax because the dust should have only covered the boots. As I noted above, however, in the end it was the language and lack of respect that proved the most disconcerting in many ways.

chet
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posted 11-07-2002 06:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chet   Click Here to Email chet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert, I respect you, I have nothing personal against James Oberg, and I believe the intentions
by those promoting the book idea are commendable, but yes, we'll
have to just disagree.

As for the GPO NOT distributing books free of charge to educators, it hardly matters; if the
school districts have to pay the GPO for the books, Joe Taxpayer STILL picks up the tab!

Last, for anyone who wants to take a look at the website Nasa already has to address the "moonhoax" issue, it's here:

http:/liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/news/2001/news-moonlanding.asp

I don't believe the editors of this page, Gil Knier & Becky Bray, were compensated anywhere
near $15,000.00 for their contribution. True, this site is rather simplistic, but it is still my contention
that any talented computer science grad student could gather the information just from the links at
this one website and put together a fantastic resource, one that would render even more pitiful ANY
of the moonhoax wacko sites, for less than $1,000.00. For just a little more, Nasa could easily
expand the information available there to make a very comprehensive case for debunking the crazy theories that the moon landings never took place. A book will cost MANY MANY times that, and probably not get anywhere near
the exposure. Of course we can always spend more money; the question is, why?

-Chet

Robert Pearlman
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posted 11-07-2002 10:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looks like NASA has sided with you Chet...

Bad publicity aborts NASA mission to pen moon-defense book

WASHINGTON - The nation's space agency sent men to the moon 33 years ago, but its plan to sponsor a mini-book documenting that those Apollo landings really happened blew up on liftoff. Its mission was aborted this week by bad publicity.

Read more: http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/4468278.htm

Paul
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posted 11-07-2002 11:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul   Click Here to Email Paul     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
1. Armstrong, Aldrin, Bean, Cernan, Young,
et al, are men of integrity and would
not participate in a "moon-hoax"...
2. Hundreds, if not thousands, worked on
the Apollo Project...how have they all
remained silent for 33 years?!...
3. "Mr." Sibrel, and others like him,are
brain-dead and need to get a life!!

I'm getting real tired of these clowns!!!
We do not need to respond to their idiocy!!
NASA should continue to ignore these bozos!
Paul

chet
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posted 11-08-2002 01:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for chet   Click Here to Email chet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I'm happy to have such influence with Nasa! Guess I'll start pounding away at them now to resume those lunar missions.
In all seriousness, I'm glad this idea has been canned; the same hoax-rebuttal message can still be delivered more comprehensively than it is now, if Nasa wishes, with the commitment of fewer dollars, as I described above.
I would like to make one point however.
I never meant to imply that Oberg's work
wasn't worth the money he was to be paid;
I think whatever he produced, and the time
he'd have to invest to produce it, would
probably be worth the $15,000 he was offered. My qualm was with the idea of paying him to produce material that was,
in my view, basically redundant.
Anyway, looks like the best of both worlds
with the following news:
"Oberg, who has received many calls and letters from teachers looking for a way to counter moon-landing skeptics, said he would still write the book, but with different funding".
God Bless America!

-Chet

Joe Davies
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posted 11-08-2002 06:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Davies   Click Here to Email Joe Davies     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Whatever the media I think SOMETHING needs to be done. While it can be argued that any rebuttal is simply adding fuel to the fire, the danger is that one of mankind's greatest achievements is in danger of being viewed historically as at best a "maybe" and at worst a hoax.

Everyone here is passionate about the subject and a "believer" of the moon landings but certainly when I speak with non-space friends almost all of them at best are dubious and some are actually convinced by the arguments from the "flat-earthers". The reason? quite simply because that is the information and opinion they are constantly drip-fed by the TV and press media, and we live in an age where 90% of people believe what they are told in the media. Let's face it, thats how we originally found out about the moon landings ourselves!

Like it or not, we have some sort of moral duty to invest our energies into support of the truth.

Joe

Matt T
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posted 11-08-2002 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Matt T   Click Here to Email Matt T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The ideal media would of course be television, the drug of the nation(s). The average man on the street doesn't want to scour the internet (much less read a whole book) to find out the truth. What most people want is an easy to follow TV show with plenty of poorly-substantiated controversial material that tells them what to think on the subject without placing any mental demand on them.
Maybe NASA could commission Fox to produce a special?

On a less facetious level, when I attended Dr. Schmitt's talk in Holland there was mention of an imminent Japanese probe that will be able to take photos of the lunar surface at a resolution that will show things like the LM ascent stage. Maybe we should just wait for those photos before launching the counter offensive?

Rodina
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posted 11-08-2002 10:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rodina   Click Here to Email Rodina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rizz:
It is my understanding that people retain more information having read it from a book, that reading the same stuff off of the internet.

Frank


Did you say something?

chet
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posted 11-08-2002 11:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for chet   Click Here to Email chet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Joe's and Matt's reports are sad, but mostly true, I think. I wouldn't go so far as to say most people believe the moon landings didn't take place; they're still firmly in the minority (aren't they?)! Matt's mention of the possibility of imminent Japanese photos of the lunar landers is encouraging, as most people would probably accept these as "proof", while the real sickos and nutcases will simply dismiss those pictures as fakes also.
The assessment of the sorry state of affairs regarding the power of television media, while depressing, does offer some hope however.
I wouldn't be averse to the idea of
Nasa commissioning a tv documentary hosted by Tom Hanks, to lay all the garbage claims of the moon landings being fake, to rest
once and for all (well, at least until people begin to forget who Tom Hanks is too). Hanks is the only person I can think of with the proper passion for the subject who is also well liked and respected enough by the public to make him a super credible spokesperson, and good guy that he seems to be, he'd probably make his fee reasonable enough to keep the venture in the affordable column for Nasa.

-Chet

Aztecdoug
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posted 11-08-2002 11:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aztecdoug   Click Here to Email Aztecdoug     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would love to have NASA take Sibrel and FOX to court and sue the pants off of them for publishing these untruths to begin with. What is that old saying? Don't get mad, get even.

------------------
Warm Regards

Douglas Henry

Enjoy yourself and have fun.... it is only a hobby!

mmmoo
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posted 11-08-2002 11:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mmmoo   Click Here to Email mmmoo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The great British astronomer Sir Patrick Moore dedicated an episode of his 'Sky at Night' series to debunking the hoax theories. You can watch it on-line by clicking on the link below:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/realmedia/video_pop.shtml?sky_at_night_apr.ram


Mike Constantine
http://moonpans.co.uk

[This message has been edited by mmmoo (edited November 08, 2002).]


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