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  Apollo crew portraits with mission patches

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Author Topic:   Apollo crew portraits with mission patches
LM-12
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posted 10-10-2011 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pre-flight crew portraits for Apollo 7 9 10 14 15 and 16 show the astronauts wearing mission patches on their spacesuits.

However, in the pre-flight crew portraits that I have seen for Apollo 8 11 12 13 and 17, the astronauts are not wearing mission patches on their spacesuits. Have you seen any crew portraits that include the mission patches for those flights?

I can understand the Apollo 13 situation because of the late crew substitution.

moorouge
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posted 10-10-2011 02:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for moorouge   Click Here to Email moorouge     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
I can understand the Apollo 13 situation because of the late crew substitution.
I think you'll find that the '13' patch didn't have crew names.

LM-12
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posted 10-10-2011 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes I know that. The question was about mission patches on spacesuits, not crew names on patches. I don't think the revised Apollo 13 crew had time for a pre-launch suited-up crew portrait.

mjanovec
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posted 10-10-2011 03:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm guessing that some crews either hadn't finalized their patch design (or didn't have the patches ready) by the time their portraits were taken.

In the case of Apollo 13, the original crew portrait (with Mattingly) shows their suits without the patches...however, they have a large mission emblem sitting in front of them.

In fact, the Apollo 13 original crew photo is the first crew photo to prominently display the mission patch design. All of the remaining crew photos (Apollo 14 through 17) prominently display their mission patch design (even if Apollo 17's patch was added after the photo was taken).

J.L
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posted 10-10-2011 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for J.L   Click Here to Email J.L     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
The question was about mission patches on spacesuits
Beta cloth mission emblems were not sewn onto the Apollo 8, 11 and 12 flight suits until after the countdown test held 2-3 weeks prior to launch. Official portraits had been taken long before that.

LM-12
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posted 10-10-2011 03:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I should add that when the Apollo 1 crew was photographed in front of Pad 34, the astronauts were wearing their mission patches.

It looks like they used temporary decals instead of beta cloth mission emblems for the Apollo 16 crew portrait.

golddog
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posted 10-12-2011 01:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for golddog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jim Lovell confirmed that the crew photo of him, Haise and Swigert was taken after their return from the mission. He pointed out that Haise was still recovering from the infection he got and was still thin and gaunt. There had not been time for a PGA photo of the crew (with Swigert not Mattingly) before liftoff.

LM-12
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posted 10-12-2011 01:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's what I figured. Thanks for all the explanations.

Maybe the official Apollo crew portraits should have been taken post-flight with the astronauts wearing their flown spacesuits. Then all the crews would have been wearing their beta cloth mission emblems - and the 12 moonwalkers would be wearing all that lunar dust too.

Mike Dixon
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posted 10-12-2011 02:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by golddog:
Jim Lovell confirmed that the crew photo of him, Haise and Swigert was taken after their return from the mission.
I was certain I saw a photo on cS some time back showing Jim Lovell signing the revised portrait (a red stamp glossy) onboard Iwo Jima following the conclusion of the mission.

LM-12
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posted 10-12-2011 03:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA photo S70-15501 might be the image you are referring to.

Mike Dixon
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posted 10-12-2011 03:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nope... that's not it.

A board member posted the image (might have been taken by one of the Iwo Jima crewmen?) and it wasn't until you looked closely at the photo that you could see Jim Lovell signing the A13 Red Stamp, so unless my mind is betraying me, I'm certain the crew portrait was done before flight.

J.L
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posted 10-12-2011 10:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for J.L   Click Here to Email J.L     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That actually is the correct photo, the version shown here has been cropped on the left side in the area that shows the original crew (red numbered) photos being signed. The closest thing to a "portrait" of the Apollo 13 crew (with Swigert) are the casual shots taken in the crew training building at KSC shortly after Swigert was assigned to the crew. These are the shots where Lovell is wearing a blue jumpsuit and has a "Jim" name tag.

I have always believed that the shot of Lovell, Swigert and Haise sitting at the table, with the mission emblem and CM/LM models was taken after the mission. These guys had better things to do than worry about a crew photo in the day or two before launch.

LM-12
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posted 10-12-2011 10:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They should make NASA photo S70-35614 the official crew portrait for Apollo 13. Photo KSC-70PC-130 is a colour image of the same scene taken from a slightly different angle.

golddog
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posted 10-13-2011 01:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for golddog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From "In their own words" published by Space Publications LLC 2003, Page 90, I/V with Jim Lovell:
That picture was not taken before the flight but after. If you look closely at Haise, he is very thin and pale as he was still recovering from his illness. The reason it was taken in our dress suits was because we were in the process of getting ready for a press conference and debriefings and at the last minute NASA realised they needed to get something out because we took off without a mission portrait.

LM-12
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posted 10-13-2011 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That crew portrait of Lovell-Swigert-Haise wearing dress suits is NASA photo number S70-36485. The photo is dated 04/29/1970.

Jack A. Kozak
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posted 10-14-2011 06:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jack A. Kozak   Click Here to Email Jack A. Kozak     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did you notice that Fred Haise is sitting on three phone books?

LM-12
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posted 10-15-2011 05:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jim Lovell mentions that the photo shoot was thought up at the last minute so I guess they had to improvise with the phone books and the photographer forgot to cover them up.

The phone books can be seen in the GRIN version of S70-36485. The phone books disappear in the NASA HSF Apollo Gallery version of the same photo.

bernoullis
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posted 10-18-2011 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bernoullis   Click Here to Email bernoullis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jack A. Kozak:
Did you notice that Fred Haise is sitting on three phone books?
How about that? I have never noticed that before! LOL!

ilbasso
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posted 10-18-2011 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ilbasso   Click Here to Email ilbasso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Even in the original Apollo 13 crew photo, I always thought it odd that Haise was posed so much lower than Lovell and Mattingly. They're looking down at him, and he is looking up at them. It always gave me the feeling of him being like a child relative to the others.

LM-12
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posted 10-18-2011 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The one thing that really stands out whenever I see the Apollo 11 crew portrait is the missing beta cloth mission emblems. You can get a sense of what the portrait could have looked like in this NASA KSC-69P-0616 photograph of Neil Armstrong.

ea757grrl
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posted 10-18-2011 03:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ea757grrl   Click Here to Email ea757grrl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Regarding the Lovell-Swigert-Haise business suit photo, I'd never seen it in full frame, so I never knew those were phone books Haise was sitting on. Priceless!

The first time I ever saw that photo was in the oversize Lawrence Allen "Man's Greatest Adventure" book, which I constantly kept checked out from the library as a youngster. (You can just barely see the phone books, but you kind of can't tell what they are.) The look on Swigert's face in that photo always stuck with me, as if he was saying something kind of saucy.

LM-12
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posted 10-22-2011 11:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA photo S69-17590 shows an Apollo 9 crew portrait with the Saturn 5 in the background. The photo is dated 18 Dec 1968. The Apollo 9 spacecraft was rolled out on 3 Jan 1969, so that is actually Apollo 8 in the background. Is this correct?

Tom
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posted 10-22-2011 12:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom   Click Here to Email Tom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That is correct, it was Apollo 8. If you look closely you'll see the first stage is venting... must have been during a countdown test.

golddog
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posted 10-22-2011 05:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for golddog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you bring up the high res version and then magnify the patches, you'll observe that the patches on the A9 crew's suits are not beta cloth and are not sewn on to the suits - looks like they are attached with tape or similar.

LM-12
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posted 10-22-2011 05:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At least that is better than no patches at all.

NASA photo S69-25478 is an alternate Apollo 9 crew portrait taken at at later date - 23 Feb 1969 - this time with the Apollo 9 spacecraft in the background. It looks to me like the astronauts might be wearing beta cloth mission emblems in that photo.

Paul78zephyr
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posted 01-17-2013 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul78zephyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This photo of the Apollo 13 crew (a favorite of mine) is dated 4.29.70 which would place it after they returned. Was it commonplace for official Apollo crew photos to be taken after their missions?

J.L
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posted 01-17-2013 01:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for J.L   Click Here to Email J.L     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, it was not common at all. There was no time for the Apollo 13 crew to take a formal portrait prior to launch. The very short period after Swigert officially joined the prime flight crew was spent preparing for the flight ahead.

Captain Apollo
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posted 01-17-2013 06:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Captain Apollo   Click Here to Email Captain Apollo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paul78zephyr:
This photo of the Apollo 13 crew (a favorite of mine) is dated 4.29.70 which would place it after they returned.
Fred sitting on the phone books - always gets me.

Paul78zephyr
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posted 01-17-2013 10:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul78zephyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's why it's a favorite!

Jay Chladek
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posted 01-19-2013 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
Maybe the official Apollo crew portraits should have been taken post-flight with the astronauts wearing their flown spacesuits.
Only problem with that is there would have been a long wait for Apollo 11, 12 and 14 given the lunar quarantine procedures. I also doubt that NASA would have allowed that since the suits at least on the early flights were likely undergoing engineering analysis to see how well they functioned (not to mention the lunar dust on them).

LM-12
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posted 01-20-2013 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Perhaps not doable, but they would have been great photos.

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