|
Author
|
Topic: Advice on selling an Apollo 8 cover forgery
|
astrobock
Member Posts: 148
From: WV, USA
Registered: Sep 2006
|
posted 01-17-2021 07:40 PM
   
Steve Zarelli recently reviewed this beautiful Apollo 8 "crew signed" cover I purchased in 2003 confirming for me all three signatures are a forgery. Sharing this as a learning tool for others and to ask an ethical question. I want to sell it fully disclosing it as a forgery knowing there are people who want these things for case studies. How should I go about marking this as a forgery? Should I even sell it or put it in the shredder? Thanks for the comments.  |
randy
Member Posts: 2381
From: West Jordan, Utah USA
Registered: Dec 1999
|
posted 01-17-2021 08:04 PM
Since Steve has already verified these as forgeries, I'd shred it. |
Ross
Member Posts: 491
From: Australia
Registered: Jul 2003
|
posted 01-18-2021 07:39 AM
I see no problem in selling it. Just mark it clearly on the front in ink as forged signatures. As you say a useful learning tool. |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1285
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
|
posted 01-18-2021 12:20 PM
If you're intent on selling it, I would stick a label on the back of it advising that the signatures are forgeries so that it can never come up as a "genuine" article should some unscrupulous or unsuspecting collector not be aware. |
Steve Zarelli
Member Posts: 739
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001
|
posted 01-18-2021 03:27 PM
Marking the back won’t stop it from being matted into a display or the signatures being cut out to use in some other way. In terms of learning tool and educational value, you've done that by posting it here. There's no need for the physical item to exist. I would run it through a shredder. One less German forgery in the world is a good thing.  |
MadSci
Member Posts: 238
From: Maryland, USA
Registered: Oct 2008
|
posted 01-18-2021 05:31 PM
Consider clipping off the bottom left and top right corners, then marking them in ink as "Forgeries - for comparative use only"I wonder if there is even a safe place to store these? Would Zarelli find it useful for comparative purposes? |
Steve Zarelli
Member Posts: 739
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001
|
posted 01-18-2021 05:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MadSci:
Would Zarelli find it useful for comparative purposes?
I have a high res photo in my files, along with dozens of others from the forger who created this. |
Spacepsycho
Member Posts: 870
From: Huntington Beach, Calif.
Registered: Aug 2004
|
posted 01-18-2021 06:52 PM
Steve, is this a recently done forgery or is it a vintage piece? Is the person who created this still passing them off? |
oly
Member Posts: 1146
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015
|
posted 01-18-2021 07:17 PM
By encouraging the destruction of this item, you are essentially encouraging the destruction of potential evidence that could be used in the future against the culprit/s who committed fraud. As technology evolves, more evidence could be extracted from such items to help identify the source.It may be prudent to remove the item from circulation. However, it is a good idea to make hi quality scans of the item and share them with the collecting community so that future potential buyers of similar items have an excellent reference and record. (Perhaps this website could run a catalogue of known fake items?) As for advice on selling the item, you would need to be clear during the sale that the item is fake, which then raises the moral question associated with such. You have uncovered a crime and hold the evidence. |
Mike Dixon
Member Posts: 1505
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003
|
posted 01-18-2021 07:34 PM
In my opinion, cS does more than its fair share in members highlighting forgeries along with other well known sites that open a wealth of information to discern autopens from the real thing. |
oly
Member Posts: 1146
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015
|
posted 01-18-2021 08:00 PM
I agree, collectSPACE is an an amazing resource. |
Steve Zarelli
Member Posts: 739
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001
|
posted 01-18-2021 10:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Spacepsycho:
Is this a recently done forgery or is it a vintage piece?
The forger who did this was quite prolific. I believe he was most active in the late 90s and early 2000s. His work was routinely distributed through Regency Superior, Aurora and many other dealers. In fact, at least two former collectSPACE members also seemed to distribute a lot of this style.I do not know if he still active, but if he is, he's a lot more low profile than he used to be. It's nearly impossible to convict a forger and law-enforcement agencies aren't bothering with "low level" stuff like this. Especially given most of his work was done almost 20 years ago and he is likely a German citizen. I think it's wishful thinking to imagine this postal cover will serve as evidence that will help convict the forger. Never gonna happen. |
oly
Member Posts: 1146
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015
|
posted 01-19-2021 12:12 AM
If there is only one or two remaining examples of their work available, it remains "low level," however, if enough example are collected to prove that the forged items have spread worldwide, then other law enforcement agencies may give the case a higher priority, perhaps German law enforcement take exception to international forgery cases from their turf.Maybe the number of examples may go beyond what local authorities considered "low level." Destroying the evidence reduced the pool of evidence. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3145
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
|
posted 01-20-2021 06:28 AM
I do believe that forgeries like this need to be destroyed. Take a high-res scan first for reference, but then irreversibly destroy it.It's the only sure-fire way of ensuring it never gets mistaken for a genuine article in the future, and is particularly relevant for pretty convincing forgeries such as this one. |
taylor.vans
Member Posts: 49
From: Seattle, Washington
Registered: Apr 2015
|
posted 01-20-2021 07:46 PM
Often times when I make copies of my autographs for framing, I write "Fake NOT Original Copy" on the back. I think this would be a sure way of making sure if it did trade hands in the future, any buyer would easily read that it was a fake. |
David C
Member Posts: 1218
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
|
posted 01-21-2021 02:11 AM
Marking the back can be gotten around, See Steve's post (number 5). Destruction is the only sure answer. |
oly
Member Posts: 1146
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015
|
posted 01-21-2021 05:16 AM
Why not surrender the evidence to the local police? That way, if they deem that they are not interested in the item, they can destroy it, and nobody breaks the law? |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 706
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted 01-22-2021 04:13 AM
I am philatelic expert for Pioneer Rocket Mail and Space Mail. If soembody sends me a forgery for examination I am obliged to mark it as forgery. I do this with a rubber stamp attached next to forged postmark. |
advertisement