Author
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Topic: Armstrong-signed GT-9 cover: is it real?
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MikeDee Member Posts: 55 From: Staten Island, NY USA Registered: Mar 2013
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posted 09-18-2019 07:07 PM
Going through another box of covers and came across this Gemini 9 cover that looks like it's signed by Neil Armstrong. Anyone have any thoughts on this signature? I did some comparisons online but I'm always skeptical. This cover has been in storage for many years though. Hope to get some insight from you all. |
chet Member Posts: 1506 From: Beverly Hills, Calif. Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 09-18-2019 10:02 PM
Most certainly an autopen, but unusual because it appears to be drawn by marker (and that it's on a G-9 cover). Probably needs to be examined in person or by very hi-res scan to be sure. |
Eddie Bizub Member Posts: 81 From: Kissimmee, FL USA Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 09-18-2019 10:07 PM
I agree its an Armstrong autopen. However, this is a Gemini-8 cover and not Gemini-9. |
chet Member Posts: 1506 From: Beverly Hills, Calif. Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 09-18-2019 10:30 PM
I stand corrected, Eddie, yes a G-8 cover. I went by the description and so focused solely on the signature. |
Mike Dixon Member Posts: 1397 From: Kew, Victoria, Australia Registered: May 2003
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posted 09-18-2019 10:30 PM
I'd like to see a matching Armstrong autopen pattern where the sweep back from the "G" doesn't come anywhere near to touching the "N". |
stsmithva Member Posts: 1933 From: Fairfax, VA, USA Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 09-19-2019 04:48 PM
It is interesting that the sweep back is so much shorter than usual. But those little differences pop up every few hundred autopens — the fact that 95% of it matches an autopen pattern is more important, from the slanted and crumpled "Neil" to a half-dozen other details in the "Armstrong." |
Mike Dixon Member Posts: 1397 From: Kew, Victoria, Australia Registered: May 2003
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posted 09-19-2019 06:04 PM
I need more evidence to convince me before I'd declare it as an autopen. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-19-2019 07:13 PM
How about this? Here's the known autopen pattern aligned with the "Neil," which matches up almost exactly.The "Armstrong" is distorted due to operator error; the autopen was mechanical and the pace at which the operator pulled the item being signed through stretched and compressed elements of the signature being applied. |
Mike Dixon Member Posts: 1397 From: Kew, Victoria, Australia Registered: May 2003
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posted 09-19-2019 07:22 PM
Thanks Rob... I thought it was worth at least raising the question. |
Ianhetho Member Posts: 109 From: Bogangar NSW Australia Registered: May 2018
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posted 09-22-2019 02:07 AM
That's brilliant Robert. Where do you get those transparent overlays from? |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-22-2019 11:05 AM
It was done in Photoshop, using Mike's cover image as the base layer and then adding the appropriate autopen pattern (from the Astro Autopens website) to a new layer and then setting that layer to 50 percent opacity. |
Ianhetho Member Posts: 109 From: Bogangar NSW Australia Registered: May 2018
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posted 09-22-2019 02:32 PM
Thanks Robert. That sounds a little complicated for me. I did see (somewhere) some clear pages with Autopen patterns printed on them, they where in a book or folder. I think it was on eBay. I would like to get one if anybody knows where one is. |
schnappsicle Member Posts: 396 From: Houston, TX, USA Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 10-05-2019 08:43 AM
I hate to disagree with anyone on this matter, because I'm definitely not an expert on autopens, but I'm thinking it's a real Armstrong. When I zoom in on the signature, I see definite layering on the ink. The way the t crosses over the A for instance and the swipe of the g is something that does not happen in an autopenned signature. At least none of the autopens I've ever seen. The way the signature fades as he writes is not something that an autopenned signature does. Again, I'm no expert, and I'm not saying it's real, but it does LOOK real to me. I get what Robert is saying, but if it was signed by him during the time of Gemini 8, then his actual signature would look very similar to his autopen of the time. Also, the Armstrong does not appear to match up with Robert's autopen example. The G in the autopen goes all the way to the N in Neil. It doesn't do that in the cover signature. This is clearly something that Zarelli should look at. |
bobslittlebro Member Posts: 179 From: Douglasville, Ga U.S.A. Registered: Nov 2009
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posted 10-05-2019 09:37 AM
I will lay odds Steve Zarelli says its an autopen. |
Steve Zarelli Member Posts: 731 From: Upstate New York, USA Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 10-05-2019 06:04 PM
Safe bet. quote: Originally posted by schnappsicle: I hate to disagree with anyone on this matter, because I'm definitely not an expert on autopens, but I'm thinking it's a real Armstrong.
An Autopen is a mechanical armature that holds a pen and signs following a template. So, lines will cross in the same way they would if a human hand was holding the pen. Regarding your second point, the marker used in this example does look a little more “natural” than the pen they typically used. The signature is a 90% match to the Autopen and the variances can be attributed to distortion in how it was applied in my opinion. I’d be shocked if it wasn't an Autopen. |
Steve Zarelli Member Posts: 731 From: Upstate New York, USA Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 10-05-2019 06:16 PM
Another factor is placement. Armstrong would not have signed over the text on the cover. He would have signed in the white space. |
JohnPaul56 Member Posts: 180 From: Montclair, NJ, USA Registered: Apr 2010
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posted 10-06-2019 02:19 PM
Looking at the overlay from photoshop, the first name matches exactly.....it has to be an autopen. |